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Not sure how it can be bad in the long run.

It is actually potentially a good thing in the long run.

If it doesn't get funded (and right now, it certainly looks like it won't even make it to its halfway point), the People will have voted with their wallets, and future projects will be better defined/offer better value/etc.

I think a big distinction people are missing here is that this campaign is about getting all their artists knowledge on how to paint these "base armies" so they can offer lower cost on them.
Likewise the Penny Arcade campaign wasn't about "removing ads" it was about giving the guys running Penny Arcade extra time they'd have spent going through potential ads and the projects they had done for other video games and using it to create stuff the users wanted like Lookouts and Automata.

 Bulkoth wrote:
I think a big distinction people are missing here is that this campaign is about getting all their artists knowledge on how to paint these "base armies" so they can offer lower cost on them.
Likewise the Penny Arcade campaign wasn't about "removing ads" it was about giving the guys running Penny Arcade extra time they'd have spent going through potential ads and the projects they had done for other video games and using it to create stuff the users wanted like Lookouts and Automata.

So you'd be backing a project to help them buy stock, train new people, and then get expensive stuff people practiced painting on?

It's like a Kickstarter for getting a horrible haircut at a cosmetology school...

I am the very definition of a lurker...but could not keep quiet on this topic. I have assembled and painted miniatures for years but as my family grew I simply did not have time to paint or assemble. I turned to BTP to add to my 40K armies and to add new armies as they we're released While I will not pretend to say I have been completely thrilled with everything...(Two issues that we're quickly addressed) Overall I have been very pleased with their quality, consistency and delivery over time. In addition I have sent them thousand's of dollars worth of mini's including Forgeworld stuff, with no fear or risk of loss.

I have recommended BTP on several occasions and no one I have recommended has been disappointed. They build/paint solid "tabletop" quality models for a fair price.

One customer's opinion.
See link for recent project.

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=6014

horusii@aol.com wrote:
I am the very definition of a lurker...but could not keep quiet on this topic. I have assembled and painted miniatures for years but as my family grew I simply did not have time to paint or assemble. I turned to BTP to add to my 40K armies and to add new armies as they we're released While I will not pretend to say I have been completely thrilled with everything...(Two issues that we're quickly addressed) Overall I have been very pleased with their quality, consistency and delivery over time. In addition I have sent them thousand's of dollars worth of mini's including Forgeworld stuff, with no fear or risk of loss.

I have recommended BTP on several occasions and no one I have recommended has been disappointed. They build/paint solid "tabletop" quality models for a fair price.

One customer's opinion.
See link for recent project.

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=6014

"Fair price" :
6 (six) x Chaos Cultist models for ONLY 60$

http://www.freewebstore.org/bluetablepainting/Chaos_Space_Marines_Chaos_Cultists_x6__Lot_2582/p1459024_7976588.aspx
or
10 X Dark Eldar Wyches for ONLY 75$
http://www.freewebstore.org/bluetablepainting/Dark_Eldar_Wyches_x_10_Lot_1148/p1459024_7306937.aspx

Wow, I am in shock. Read the posts on page 2-3 about Value for Money...

And BTW this topic is not about their service, after all if some is willing to pay 1500$ for painting models worth 500$ that is his decision, but Kickstarter is not about "geting stock up" or "getting more for training staff".

horusii@aol.com wrote:
I am the very definition of a lurker...but could not keep quiet on this topic. I have assembled and painted miniatures for years but as my family grew I simply did not have time to paint or assemble. I turned to BTP to add to my 40K armies and to add new armies as they we're released While I will not pretend to say I have been completely thrilled with everything...(Two issues that we're quickly addressed) Overall I have been very pleased with their quality, consistency and delivery over time. In addition I have sent them thousand's of dollars worth of mini's including Forgeworld stuff, with no fear or risk of loss.

I have recommended BTP on several occasions and no one I have recommended has been disappointed. They build/paint solid "tabletop" quality models for a fair price.

One customer's opinion.
See link for recent project.

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=6014

If your happy only getting half of your models painted(and by half of your models i mean take a look at the models they paint, the undersides are not even touched, barely based. undersides of tanks/turrets/weapons not even touched).not getting your bits back, and horrible communication from a company that charges you a arm and leg sure ..go ahead and have fun..it's your money after all.

 god.ra wrote:


And BTW this topic is not about their service, after all if some is willing to pay 1500$ for painting models worth 500$ that is his decision, but Kickstarter is not about "geting stock up" or "getting more for training staff".

No. Kickstarter is if you need funding to make an idea happen. It seems fairly plausible that BTP will not be able to set up their "Turbo Army" ideas if they dont make their goal and need to pull their idea and go back to the drawing board, just like these guys have recently done.

Some ideas are bad and dont get funding. Some ideas are good and do get funding. Both should be on Kickstarter to get vetted by people with their money.

In contrast, what should NOT be on Kickstarter are projects that don't hinge on the funding (e.g. Mantic's DreadBall, CMON's stuff, even the Boss Monster Cardgame a few threads down, which by their own description is already developed!!!).

As BTP actually wants to Kickstart a project - irrespective of whether its a smart project or not - instead of just "blinging-up a project that'll happen either way" - as Mantic for example did - BTP are likely far more deserving to be on the site than Mantic or CMON ever were.

Wow ... it amazes me how polarizing Kickstarter projects can be and how much back-and-forth dialog can be heard from both the Yea- and the Nay-sayers.

Personally, I don't care what is or is not "deserving" of having a Kickstarter. I'm of the mind that, if it interests me, I pledge. If it doesn't, I do not. Quite simple really.

The idea of crowd-funding is that, if the idea is worthy, and appeals to the masses, it will be funded. Essentially "survival of the fittest" for the more appealing ideas. The less appealing or less thought out don't get the funding.

I don't understand the need to get so frustrated and indignant about a Kickstarter - especially to the point of having to "report" a project that may not appeal to an individual. One that may not appeal to one person may to another. It's subjective, much like the service and quality of BTP, and isn't worth the aggravation.

What gives one, or a few, vocal individual(s) the right to report and potentially shut down a project that may appeal and have merit to others? Let the crowd vote over the project's merits with their wallets, or not, and save the campaigning for those that initiated the Kickstarter.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Full of themselves? Doesn't even compare to this one

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/575109064/penny-arcade-sells-out

$50,000 - Come to Penny Arcade HQ and spend one whole day in the bathrooms! (You must arrange travel)

 Zweischneid wrote:

 god.ra wrote:


And BTW this topic is not about their service, after all if some is willing to pay 1500$ for painting models worth 500$ that is his decision, but Kickstarter is not about "geting stock up" or "getting more for training staff".

No. Kickstarter is if you need funding to make an idea happen. It seems fairly plausible that BTP will not be able to set up their "Turbo Army" ideas if they dont make their goal and need to pull their idea and go back to the drawing board, just like these guys have recently done.

Some ideas are bad and dont get funding. Some ideas are good and do get funding. Both should be on Kickstarter to get vetted by people with their money.



In contrast, what should NOT be on Kickstarter are projects that don't hinge on the funding (e.g. Mantic's DreadBall, CMON's stuff, even the Boss Monster Cardgame a few threads down, which by their own description is already developed!!!).

As BTP actually wants to Kickstart a project - irrespective of whether its a smart project or not - instead of just "blinging-up a project that'll happen either way" - as Mantic for example did - BTP are likely far more deserving to be on the site than Mantic or CMON ever were.

Wow I'm so glad you have full access to the balance sheets of mantic and cool mini or not, studio mcvey et al so that you know full well they had the immediate funds to put those projects into action.

Oh wait you don't and your talking from a horrendous position of ignorance, I feel sorry for you really I do.

Trust me there is no exposure of liability or risk involved with doing prepaints, I know this having done several years of commission painting.

Quite frankly BTP is full of bull crap as I illustrated earlier in this thread.

I'm sure your having a mini painting blog that no doubt receives sponsorship from BTP has coloured your judgement and you really should declare your interests. Quite frankly I find it horrifyingly shameful that you have acted in this way to earn a cheap buck.

Shame on you.

I also like how he calls people who use unpainted models 'pathetic'. Insulting your customers doesn't seem like a good business strategy.

 Darth Bob wrote:
I also like how he calls people who use unpainted models 'pathetic'. Insulting your customers doesn't seem like a good business strategy.

It's certainly a novel approach seeing as the owners are lifestyle coaches.

Truthfully I don't get this kickstarter and the reason behind it. I understand why a lot of people do kickstarters as even if unsuccessful they have a bigger effect then most people realise. It's free advertising and has the potential to help ease the pain of funding projects. Heck I'm working on a long term project right now that the cost is not easy to swallow but if successful will have a fast return. The problem with the BTP is their really is no clear cut goal to their KS. It would be similair to me saying "hey I want to grow my business more but by adding more inventory so pay me!". I think that's more of the interp. that people are taking to it. Now personally I think their quality sucks but more so for the price even, but on the plus side I can now use them as an example to my customers who complain that I charge to much as I can show them this and say "you can have a lesser quality for triple the price". In the end I echo as the others vote with your wallet, as I know I am on this one and refusing to even touch that ks with a ten foot pole.

I don't really get what the end goal of this kickstarter is. By funding it, it means in the future I can get already painted armies in standard colours more quickly?

If I was to find my self with the money to pay someone to paint a army, I want it painted in my colours and done well. I'm not looking for something that could just end up being a step up from pre-painted mini's. The end goal only realy benefits bandwagon gamers who need the newest meta build for the upcoming tourney in their lap in time for competion.

This is a VERY niche serves for a already niche market. I will be surprised if Blue Table manages to pull this off.

I would be more impressed if they were using kick started to generate the funds to expand into making their own conversion bits and bases.

Kickstarter scamming rule 1, always have the funds to reach the goal on your own Kickstarter.

Well, I try not to be a cynic, but I seriously wonder why anyone would ever fund anything on kickstarter these days.

Initially, I believe the site had pure intentions to help creative individuals realize their dreams, but now it seems to have rapidly become a platform for E-Begging and exploitation of generous individuals looking for something new.

Although I really wouldn't know. I don't browse the site and the only kickstarter news I hear is what filters down to me through dakka and other avenues.

I imagine the fad will end soon.

 Alpharius wrote:
Zweischneid, you seem unusually invested in BTP.

Are you a past customer, happy with the service you received?

I'm wondering where all of the people who are happy with BTP are on this thread.

I have no dog in this fight; I don't own any minis that I didn't paint myself with my own hand. That being said previous to this thread I've only really heard good things about BTP and was kinda surprised to see how negative the responses here were. Obviously someone is using their services.

I still do not understand what exactly they are asking for in this KS, nor what exactly the "Pledge snacks" are supposed to be.


As was posted earlier, if they want "Practice" minis, why don't they just go scrum them up on Feebey and use those.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/40K-/44408/i.html?_ipg=200&rt=nc


Honestly, they could have thought this through and made it into something cool, but it just looks like they took a shortcut looking for a handout.

 Ouze wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Zweischneid, you seem unusually invested in BTP.

Are you a past customer, happy with the service you received?

I'm wondering where all of the people who are happy with BTP are on this thread.

I have no dog in this fight; I don't own any minis that I didn't paint myself with my own hand. That being said previous to this thread I've only really heard good things about BTP and was kinda surprised to see how negative the responses here were. Obviously someone is using their services.

To what end would a BPT customer, beyond horus, want to come in and talk about the product for BTP? The mood in here is already pretty set. It seems to be they'd only be opening themselves up to pointless ridicule by folks who have already made up their mind. From what I've seen of their armies I think they do good work. I also thought Paint it Black Studios does good work too. However, by the looks of his YouTube channnel he hasn't painted anything in some time.

This..

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


Wow I'm so glad you have full access to the balance sheets of mantic and cool mini or not, studio mcvey et al so that you know full well they had the immediate funds to put those projects into action.

Oh wait you don't and your talking from a horrendous position of ignorance, I feel sorry for you really I do.

.. and this...

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:



I'm sure your having a mini painting blog that no doubt receives sponsorship from BTP has coloured your judgement and you really should declare your interests. Quite frankly I find it horrifyingly shameful that you have acted in this way to earn a cheap buck.

.. in actually the same post. Nice one.

You either have access to my balance sheets... or you should start feeling sorry for yourself, I guess

Ouze wrote:
I have no dog in this fight; I don't own any minis that I didn't paint myself with my own hand.

I do though in fairness they are show pieces from my painting mentor so ifso factso and they weren't cheap. Although they are display and not play pieces so not sure if that counts hrmm. BTP to me would be much better if they were cheaper but for the quality of the work it just doesn't seem to me to be worth the pricing. To each their own I guess and if they are successfull in their KS then good for them, if not then well I am not shocked.

 Zweischneid wrote:
This..

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


Wow I'm so glad you have full access to the balance sheets of mantic and cool mini or not, studio mcvey et al so that you know full well they had the immediate funds to put those projects into action.

Oh wait you don't and your talking from a horrendous position of ignorance, I feel sorry for you really I do.

.. and this...

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:



I'm sure your having a mini painting blog that no doubt receives sponsorship from BTP has coloured your judgement and you really should declare your interests. Quite frankly I find it horrifyingly shameful that you have acted in this way to earn a cheap buck.

.. in actually the same post. Nice one.

You either have access to my balance sheets... or you should start feeling sorry for yourself, I guess

So you admit your taking sponsorship from BTP then. As you state I wouldn't feel sorry for myself if I had access to your balance sheets. Phew glad we got that all sorted out guess we can all put zwreischneid on ignore now :-p

Putting you both on ignore for continuing something you were asked to DROP.

Back on topic time looking at the backers it looks the most popular rewards are the painting DVDs/ digital versions. Makes me think that might have been a better way to raise funding. Kickstarter a series of painting DVDs the rewards being said DVDs then take the profit to buy stock for your other project. That way they could create something new which can be an ongoing product plus they get the funds to restock.

Not sure if they are still at btp but I remember from watching the YouTube channel that they were in the process of sculpting minis/parts to cast. That would of been ks worthy

cerealkiller195 wrote:
Not sure if they are still at btp but I remember from watching the YouTube channel that they were in the process of sculpting minis/parts to cast. That would of been ks worthy

Why is pre-sculpting models for people too lazy to sculpt themselves more KS-worthy than pre-painting models for people too lazy to paint themselves?

Seems like the same thing in blue.

BTP responds to some of the questions raised in this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zO9bLM9OEA&feature=plcp

 Zweischneid wrote:

Why is pre-sculpting models for people too lazy to sculpt themselves more KS-worthy than pre-painting models for people too lazy to paint themselves?

Seems like the same thing in blue.

If you want to knock BTP's Kickstarter ad nauseum, that's fine (but getting annoying) but you do not need to insult people that may choose to use an outside service for painting or sculpting if they choose. What you so callously call "lazy" could be due to lack of time, lack of ability or even a disability. Jeesh ...

RoninXiC wrote:
BTP responds to some of the questions raised in this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zO9bLM9OEA&feature=plcp

Still not sold.

 Empchild wrote:
Truthfully I don't get this kickstarter and the reason behind it.

As far as I am able to tell, it seems they think they can use the crowdfunding craze to generate revenue. If their current business model doesn't drive sales, I really don't see how this will, either.