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Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

When I'm playing a newbie or someone I have reason to believe is not competitive (say meeting a new gamer for the first time, if that's the impression I've gotten), I'll take a "one of everything" type of list, focusing on variety and my best-painted stuff. That gives more variety to the play experience, shows off sexier models, and makes the game more challenging for me. On the few occasions when I've been surprised by such a player bringing a strong list and/or having some hot dice, I've gotten the surprise pleasure of a challenging, hard to win game. Which is more fun for both of us.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/21 21:32:41


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Made in us
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman




The problem is not with people running suboptimal and poor lists - that is entirely up to them, as entirely as is humanly possible.
The problem is with them labeling their lists "fun", with the unspoken or more commonly spoken implication that anyone who doesn't play crappy lists isn't playing to have fun. Like the competitive player is hating every minute of it.

I quite prefer labeling lists "Hard" or "Soft" as opposed to "Competitive" vs "Fun".

I doubt anyone would have a hard time understanding why someone wants to play "soft" games instead of "hard" tournament-level games.

But when that "soft" player turns around and says "I'm the only one who plays for fun here", that's when we get baffled.



There is also, of course, the undercurrent of simply bad gamers who shield themselves from the effects of failure by underscoring repeatedly how they're non-serious players who only ever play for fun so it's fine that they lose all the time guys... but let's not get into that.



The point is that the problem is much less "anything but super-competitive hardcore lists isn't fun" and much more "why are you saying that super-competitive hardcore lists aren't?".

The OP isn't the one who started labeling his way of playing the only one that's "Fun" after all, the casual "Fun" list-builders did.

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Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Rampton, UK

I just pick a list i like.
I would never pick a list solely on its competitiveness because i don't really see 40k as a competitive game due to the randomness, its just a "fun game" for me.
I would not however have anything against someone that does, its all down to personal preference at the end of the day and as mentioned a few times above different people enjoy different aspects, each to his own and all that.
   
Made in nl
Confessor Of Sins






Every time I take a non-competitive list I take units that during the games always end up performing badly or barely averagely.

When I take Swooping Hawks they either do the rubberband jump all the time or they take pot shots ineffectively while trying to get near a tank to use their grenades.

I haven't really played a game in 6th yet where they shined.

It's fun a few times to use them, but it's also fun to have units to actually perform well.

I won't call myself a tactical genius, so it could be I'm just using them wrong but when the codices for your armies are riddled with old, overpriced, ineffective units (Eldar) or have a very limited selection of units to begin with (Sisters) it is no surprise that my army lists tend to end up the same and/or closely resemble net lists.


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Made in gb
Dispassionate Imperial Judge






HATE Club, East London

mynamelegend wrote:
There is also, of course, the undercurrent of simply bad gamers who shield themselves from the effects of failure by underscoring repeatedly how they're non-serious players who only ever play for fun so it's fine that they lose all the time guys... but let's not get into that.


Of course, there is also a sizeable number of gamers who aren't very good at 40k and don't care, hence why they might say that they play 'for fun' rather than 'seriously'. Being good at 40k isn't high up their list of priorities in life (and rightly so).

I think that's a very justified use of the term 'fun', implying that they don't take it too seriously.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

Yep but there are also varying levels of competative. I like winning and doing well, however i also want to make sure my opponent has a good time and even gets to see something new.I also need to have some theme or idea i am going for. My nurgle themed army has every unit in multiples of 7. I have 7 single models. Couldnt get the wounds to workout but meh. However every unit has to be used differently to its optimized version.

Now is it designed to win? Yes but i have found that usually my generalship makes up for any deficiencies in optimalization

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Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

I take offense at the concept that using a "fun list" is some sort of shield or excuse for losing or for being a bad player.

Regardless of my lists, I still play to win. But therein lies the difference: I "play," not "compete." Those two words may represent the same concept for some of you, but they mean different things to me.

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Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

mynamelegend wrote:
The problem is not with people running suboptimal and poor lists - that is entirely up to them, as entirely as is humanly possible.
The problem is with them labeling their lists "fun", with the unspoken or more commonly spoken implication that anyone who doesn't play crappy lists isn't playing to have fun. Like the competitive player is hating every minute of it.


This. I'm probably on the competitive side of things, but I still manage to have fun. Being a twerp is quite independent of playstyle.

Though, like other people have mentioned, 40K's slapdash balance is the main reason for this being seen as a choice at all. The division is a tacit acknowledgement that the rules and balance within factions are poor. Since it's possible to abuse the rules to create armies of wildly different effectiveness, there has to be a gentleman's agreement not to use the really powerful lists, which is enforced by the stereotype that someone who optimises is WAAC or out to spoil someone's fun. The side-effect of this is that full-on competitive play is quite boring, boiling down into a handful of Best lists & armies.

My main game is Warmachine, where the balance is far better (not perfect, but better than 40K), and the difference between a "hard" or "soft" army is far less severe. Player skill is the main factor, as it should be. Because I'm not worried about breaking the game or getting frowned at for playing an arbitarily "too good" army, I can relax and do my best to win while also having fun.

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Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 Elemental wrote:
My main game is Warmachine, where the balance is far better (not perfect, but better than 40K), and the difference between a "hard" or "soft" army is far less severe. Player skill is the main factor, as it should be. Because I'm not worried about breaking the game or getting frowned at for playing an arbitarily "too good" army, I can relax and do my best to win while also having fun.


I'm getting tons of flak in my local scene for my use of Trollbloods, We have 2 trollbloods players at the store I play at, me and the store owner. The store owner is ruthless is tournament/event games. He is known to literally table your entire army before he goes in for the caster kill. He and I play almost the same list, but are very different about play styles. I'm far more reserved, holding back a turn until I know I can get the charge, smash into my opponent, and open a hole for the caster kill. Because of the play style of the store owner, coupled with the natural hardiness of the trolls (including their buffing out the wazoo style), has led to people disliking my trolls, so I play some of my other armies just to avoid the "hard army list" I bring... (I literally own just enough trolls for 1 or 2 lists lol). Which sucks because I'm not a hard WAAC player, and play to have fun. It doesn't help when I went undefeated in our last event, but came in second on points lol...

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Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

 Alfndrate wrote:

I'm getting tons of flak in my local scene for my use of Trollbloods, We have 2 trollbloods players at the store I play at, me and the store owner. The store owner is ruthless is tournament/event games. He is known to literally table your entire army before he goes in for the caster kill. He and I play almost the same list, but are very different about play styles. I'm far more reserved, holding back a turn until I know I can get the charge, smash into my opponent, and open a hole for the caster kill. Because of the play style of the store owner, coupled with the natural hardiness of the trolls (including their buffing out the wazoo style), has led to people disliking my trolls, so I play some of my other armies just to avoid the "hard army list" I bring... (I literally own just enough trolls for 1 or 2 lists lol). Which sucks because I'm not a hard WAAC player, and play to have fun. It doesn't help when I went undefeated in our last event, but came in second on points lol...


I'll admit, that's the first time I've heard trolls derided as broken, usually it's Cryx or Legion. But I think the point about skill stands, considering you're playing nearly the same list and getting such wildly different results.

"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

We've got our cries of Cryx and Legion being broken, but for the most part, there is 1 vocal person about the brokenness of trolls, and while he's extremely vocal. I got lots of gak at our last event because of my Trolls, so even though we have 1 guy being vocal on a consistent basis, everyone else is thinking roughly the same thoughts.

I mean don't get me wrong, I'm a decent player for my local meta and friends. I wouldn't be able to compete at the speed as many of the tournament players, but I tend to hold my own, usually losing to bad dice rolls, or a misplacement of a model (Often times I overshoot a charge, and end up killing 1, maybe 2 models, but leaving one of my expensive warbeasts out of my zone of protection...

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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Boulder, CO

I play Orks, so you know I'm in it for the fun. That said, I like to take themed lists. That's what is fun for me.
   
 
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