Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Do boons carry over from the lord after Dark apotheosis? I'm rather sure they do, but there is nothing that states one way or the other.

You retain none of the special rules/wargear. A case can be made that boons fall into one of those two categories.

Beings wargear does not transfer over, and you replace the current model with a DP model I will say no it does not transfer over.

It really could go either way.

You lose Special Rules and Wargear. It doesn't say that you lose the Boons you've already gotten.

You do, however, lose the "Champion of Chaos" special rule, so you wouldn't be able to gain more.

Since a DP doesn't have the Champions of Chaos rule anymore, i'm struggling to see how it could retain the benefits it had from that rule.

If the DP retained CoC then I would argue it should keep all byproducts of that rule, but if it doesn't have it he should probably loose them.

I would say that it keeps all of its current boons but can't gain any more

 Grimnarsmate wrote:
I would say that it keeps all of its current boons but can't gain any more

I'm also assuming the Daemon Prince starts with fresh wounds, and that any wounds the IC had do not transfer over. With that in mind I don't see the boons transferring either.

The point that should be made here is that, in game turns, you aren't "upgrading" your character - you're replacing him entirely. With that in mind, you shouldn't carry anything over unless specifically told that you can.
That also means any Wounds - or indeed, other stat losses such as Dante's ability, for instance - are gone.

 Super Ready wrote:
The point that should be made here is that, in game turns, you aren't "upgrading" your character - you're replacing him entirely. With that in mind, you shouldn't carry anything over unless specifically told that you can.
That also means any Wounds - or indeed, other stat losses such as Dante's ability, for instance - are gone.

I agree with this, as it stands Abbadon could change into a DP that's way worse game wise than the original model. However a unit champ could turn into a DP that's way more bad ass.

So if a champion/IC turns into a Dp it carries over its Mark of Chaos and that's it?

What if it was an Undivded Lord? The codex says a DP HAS to choose to be a Daemon of......

So if you change into a DP do you get to choose? or do just get nothing.

You get nothing.

So Dark Apotheosis is the only way to get an unmarked Daemon Prince.


I am sure they will eventually errata this to where if a model had a mark it is turned into a Daemon of X. Otherwise, it is an undivided Daemon. And any boons previously gained are also retained.

I appears the only thing that the DP retains is its Warlord trait.

They don't need to errata that (the mark carrying over specifically), as it's already within the codex in the 'Dark Apotheosis' rules-text: "...If the champion had a Mark of Chaos, the Daemon Prince is instead a Daemon of the Sarne Chaos god..."

Regarding boons in general? you are told to treat the transformation as the 'spawnhood' one except as indicated. The 'spawnhood' rules say the model "...retains none of the champion's special rules or wargear..."

Given the various boons are pretty obviously special rules, i'd say you are out of luck.

Warlord and Marks (demon type) only.

Nope never mind psyker status is lost also it appears.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You get nothing.

So Dark Apotheosis is the only way to get an unmarked Daemon Prince.

Is that even a valid unit? I can't find the entry for an undivided Daemon Prince.

Minx wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
You get nothing.
So Dark Apotheosis is the only way to get an unmarked Daemon Prince.

Is that even a valid unit? I can't find the entry for an undivided Daemon Prince.

Exactly same page as all 'other' daemon princes, ie. page 33. Or page 94 and ignore all options.

Luide wrote:
Exactly same page as all 'other' daemon princes, ie. page 33. Or page 94 and ignore all options.

One of the options is not really optional though: "Must be upgraded..."

Minx wrote:

Luide wrote:
Exactly same page as all 'other' daemon princes, ie. page 33. Or page 94 and ignore all options.

One of the options is not really optional though: "Must be upgraded..."

So the only way to get a DP without a mark is to have a lord w/o one. As you don't break any rules that way.

It says replace with a demon prince in Power Armor, and he is dedicated depending on the Mark he used to have.

Seems pretty clear to me. Put a DP down and he has those 2 additional special rules.

Question:
"in every instance , replace the words "chaos spawn" with the words "deamon prince"."
"if the champion had a mark of chaos the deamon prince is instead a deamon of the same chaos god.."

Pretty sure im misreading this because of tunnel vision but still... theres the passage about replacing the chaos spawn with deamon prince but then after all that it kind of gets undermined?

Khorne lord hits d66

Instead of replacing the lord with a deamon prince i replace with Skarbrand, a bloodthirster or a bloodletter as its a "deamon of the same chaos god"- Give them an inch...

Correct me if I'm wrong but Skarbrand,Bloodthister are not just Daemons, they're greater daemons. So you can have skulltaker ^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:
seriously though you get a Daemon of Khorne from C:CSM

 Brometheus wrote:
It says replace with a demon prince in Power Armor, and he is dedicated depending on the Mark he used to have.

Seems pretty clear to me. Put a DP down and he has those 2 additional special rules.

Woah, I did not realize he gets power armor, that's better than i thought. Thanks for pointing that out, I was going to correct you when ... the codex corrected myself!

Ithani wrote:
Question:
"in every instance , replace the words "chaos spawn" with the words "deamon prince"."
"if the champion had a mark of chaos the deamon prince is instead a deamon of the same chaos god.."

Pretty sure im misreading this because of tunnel vision but still... theres the passage about replacing the chaos spawn with deamon prince but then after all that it kind of gets undermined?

Khorne lord hits d66

Instead of replacing the lord with a deamon prince i replace with Skarbrand, a bloodthirster or a bloodletter as its a "deamon of the same chaos god"- Give them an inch...

Someone please do this at a GT. Or better yet bring a HUGE HW bloodthurister for this purpose

You become a Daemon Prince with its stats, nothing else, except what the codex says. It sucks I know but at least its not a chaos spawn with no save.

Chaos artifact is not war gear so I keep my black mace?

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Chaos artifact is not war gear so I keep my black mace?

Yes it's Wargear.
And it's a 3 year old thread you've dragged up.