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Does it actually work? Hearing things likeTyphus and a blob of cultists doing just that to supercharge Epidemius' tally seems a strange way to do something.

No as for the latest update in the faq, it is wisely stated that the so called ''zombies'' are just cultist, with FNP and slow n' purposeful rules, that canno purchase options other than more models and DO NOT HAVE THE MARK OF NURGLE, other than typhus killing i dont see the point

jakingo wrote:
No as for the latest update in the faq, it is wisely stated that the so called ''zombies'' are just cultist, with FNP and slow n' purposeful rules, that canno purchase options other than more models and DO NOT HAVE THE MARK OF NURGLE, other than typhus killing i dont see the point

Ignore this as it doesn't really mean ANYTHING to the original Question....



Yes you can charge it, as its not techincally yours. Its Terrain and it has a statline. You'll charge in, use your Destroyer Hive, kill aload of Cultists and boost the Tally Up.

Cultists having the Mark of Nurgle or not doesn't matter.

yea he is right, i was confused by the question since there was another discusion about the zombie cultis having the mark or not, anyway here is another dirty trick a read about early but it demands more points but it can tally up very fast

the idea is called "Plague Bomb" (I like to think of it as the mass sacrifice to Father Nurgle). It will use Epidemius, "Aura of Decay", and a full squad of grots as the troops choice from the allies selection. You take the max number of grots (or close to it), when you deploy them, do so deep in your zone and as close together as possible. When Epidemius drops in by them, he casts "Aura of Decay". Because they count as enemies due to Desperate Allies also using the rules for Allies of Convenience. They count as enemies for all your shooting attacks. Aura of Decay doesn't require a target for it to be cast. This means that all the grots will be wounded on a 4+ with no armor save. Cranking up the kill numbers for "Tally of Pestilence". So from your first turn, you already have a huge number of kills, probably giving you 3+ feel no pain and ignore armor on turn one. If needed, you could also drop in a greater unclean with Epidemius who also has "Aura of Decay"

My thinking is buy a Skyshield Landing pad. Place the landing pad deep in your zone. Deploy the grots onto the landing pad. When availible, Epidemius can drop onto the pad without scattering. Then cast aura of decay, and you're in business.

i dunno now if it is according to rules but sounds legit so far....

Yeah..... Who are you targetting with Aura of Decay though?

The Grots? Yeah, you can't do that as though they are treated as enemy for shooting attacks, it still says you cannot target them. So yeah, that plan doesn't work.


Sorry Bro

jakingo wrote:
yea he is right, i was confused by the question since there was another discusion about the zombie cultis having the mark or not, anyway here is another dirty trick a read about early but it demands more points but it can tally up very fast

Trick that doesn't work RAW.

jakingo wrote:
the idea is called "Plague Bomb" (I like to think of it as the mass sacrifice to Father Nurgle). It will use Epidemius, "Aura of Decay", and a full squad of grots as the troops choice from the allies selection. You take the max number of grots (or close to it), when you deploy them, do so deep in your zone and as close together as possible. When Epidemius drops in by them, he casts "Aura of Decay". Because they count as enemies due to Desperate Allies also using the rules for Allies of Convenience. They count as enemies for all your shooting attacks.

Except that you're not allowed to target them. This is extremely important.

jakingo wrote:
Aura of Decay doesn't require a target for it to be cast

Wrong. Aura of Decay is considered ranged weapon and like every other ranged weapon, may not be used at all unless there is a valid target within range.
(If one tries to argue that Aura of Decay doesn't have a range listed per se, then RAW that just means Aura of Decay can only be used when the range to valid target is none).

There's a thread with proper rule references and verbatim rules quotes why it doesn't work RAW.

Luide wrote:

jakingo wrote:
yea he is right, i was confused by the question since there was another discusion about the zombie cultis having the mark or not, anyway here is another dirty trick a read about early but it demands more points but it can tally up very fast

Trick that doesn't work RAW.

jakingo wrote:
the idea is called "Plague Bomb" (I like to think of it as the mass sacrifice to Father Nurgle). It will use Epidemius, "Aura of Decay", and a full squad of grots as the troops choice from the allies selection. You take the max number of grots (or close to it), when you deploy them, do so deep in your zone and as close together as possible. When Epidemius drops in by them, he casts "Aura of Decay". Because they count as enemies due to Desperate Allies also using the rules for Allies of Convenience. They count as enemies for all your shooting attacks.

Except that you're not allowed to target them. This is extremely important.

jakingo wrote:
Aura of Decay doesn't require a target for it to be cast

Wrong. Aura of Decay is considered ranged weapon and like every other ranged weapon, may not be used at all unless there is a valid target within range.
(If one tries to argue that Aura of Decay doesn't have a range listed per se, then RAW that just means Aura of Decay can only be used when the range to valid target is none).

There's a thread with proper rule references and verbatim rules quotes why it doesn't work RAW.

This, is what i said...

But ALOT more detailed and actual rules quotes

the best answer was already on the thread,but is still a grey area....as you cna read a follow

.......''it acts as a ranged weapon, that is a blast, which originates from the Daemon. So he fires the weapon, centered on himself. And any Enemy models within range are hit.
With the FAQ, AoD requires LoS to hit. But it doesn't count as shooting for the unit. As the attack doesn't designate a selected target for the unit. This leads me to believe AoD is essentially a shooting attack that the Daemon fires at itself, needing LoS to hit enemies, but doesn't target them. Sense you dont designate and enemy target when it is used, you can use it when none are in range. Allies of Convenience has your main force treat allies as enemies, Allies of Desperation uses the same rule. So you have enemies in range of the ability, that you do not specifically target''...

Yeah....


thats Tosh

jakingo wrote:
the best answer was already on the thread,but is still a grey area....as you cna read a follow

.......''it acts as a ranged weapon, that is a blast, which originates from the Daemon. So he fires the weapon, centered on himself. And any Enemy models within range are hit.
With the FAQ, AoD requires LoS to hit. But it doesn't count as shooting for the unit. As the attack doesn't designate a selected target for the unit. This leads me to believe AoD is essentially a shooting attack that the Daemon fires at itself, needing LoS to hit enemies, but doesn't target them. Sense you dont designate and enemy target when it is used, you can use it when none are in range.Allies of Convenience has your main force treat allies as enemies, Allies of Desperation uses the same rule. So you have enemies in range of the ability, that you do not specifically target''...

Incorrect, if there are no enemies in range of a weapon, it cannot be fired. Pg 12 of BRB. As AoD has a range or 6", there has to be 1 valid enemy it can hit before this trick will work. So its doable, just not until your on top of the real enemy.

More importantly for the purposes of _this_ thread, yes, you can assault your quad gun with Typhus and Cultists.

Better to use icarus lascannon because it is cheaper. The best part is that because the cultists can't hurt it, you will never destroy the gun - at most you can do 1 wound.

So the trick works for sure (with Typhus, not with Epidemius), but it isn't broken or anything.

One of those instances where RAW is interesting, but academic. Try to pull this with an opponent and he will forcably insert your gun emplacement into your rectum.

 Testify wrote:
One of those instances where RAW is interesting, but academic. Try to pull this with an opponent and he will forcably insert your gun emplacement into your rectum.

Do you know this from personal experience? Did someone have a bad situation involving a Quad Gun and their rectum? It's OK. It's not your fault. Just point on this anatomically incorrect doll where the bad man touched you.

JK. If someone pulled this with me, I probably wouldn't care. I would definitely spend a turn or 4 shooting at Epidemius.

 Testify wrote:
One of those instances where RAW is interesting, but academic. Try to pull this with an opponent and he will forcably insert your gun emplacement into your rectum.

Why?

Being able to assault the quad gun is what keeps it from being absolutely broken.
Imagine if you could only shoot/assault your opponents quad, and they took over yours. Now you're stuck trying to deal with the squad.

It's not even that broken

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Testify wrote:
One of those instances where RAW is interesting, but academic. Try to pull this with an opponent and he will forcably insert your gun emplacement into your rectum.

Why?

Being able to assault the quad gun is what keeps it from being absolutely broken.
Imagine if you could only shoot/assault your opponents quad, and they took over yours. Now you're stuck trying to deal with the squad.

It's not even that broken

Assaulting your own quad gun because you think it's about to be over-run is another thing. Using it to exploit Epidermus is quite another.

There is such a thing as context and common sense, and you need to use both in this instance.

 Testify wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Testify wrote:
One of those instances where RAW is interesting, but academic. Try to pull this with an opponent and he will forcably insert your gun emplacement into your rectum.

Why?

Being able to assault the quad gun is what keeps it from being absolutely broken.
Imagine if you could only shoot/assault your opponents quad, and they took over yours. Now you're stuck trying to deal with the squad.

It's not even that broken

Assaulting your own quad gun because you think it's about to be over-run is another thing. Using it to exploit Epidermus is quite another.

There is such a thing as context and common sense, and you need to use both in this instance.

Not really, you look at the rules, realize it's legal.
Realize you need to sacrifice a unit to so, of which it may not work.
It's not exploiting in the slightest. It's a gimmicky bad trick

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

It's not exploiting in the slightest. It's a gimmicky bad trick

...
QED?

Wait, this doesn't make any sense at all. Since when could you launch an assault against a terrain piece. The only target for an assault is an enemy unit.

I mean, it may be different for buildings with enemy troops garrisoned inside of it, but outside of this, you can't assault terrain.

Because if you could, that would be ridiculous. "Hey, guys, let's get a free 2D6" of movement by charging that mailbox! RAWRRR!!!"

 Ailaros wrote:
Wait, this doesn't make any sense at all. Since when could you launch an assault against a terrain piece. The only target for an assault is an enemy unit.

I mean, it may be different for buildings with enemy troops garrisoned inside of it, but outside of this, you can't assault terrain.

Because if you could, that would be ridiculous. "Hey, guys, let's get a free 2D6" of movement by charging that mailbox! RAWRRR!!!"

Page 105, under Gun Emplacements. THe rules state you can attack it in close combat. If you cannot charge it, how do you get into assault with it and thus be able to attack it?

Why can a player not do it? They spend 500 points on their list to pull the nurgle sacrifice, not counting the defence line and quad gun. TBH if someone wants to spend a third on their list for a throw away tactic let them.

 Ailaros wrote:
Wait, this doesn't make any sense at all. Since when could you launch an assault against a terrain piece. The only target for an assault is an enemy unit.

I mean, it may be different for buildings with enemy troops garrisoned inside of it, but outside of this, you can't assault terrain.

Because if you could, that would be ridiculous. "Hey, guys, let's get a free 2D6" of movement by charging that mailbox! RAWRRR!!!"

Quad gun is a Gun emplacement, which has a Toughness and wound count and armor save

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Why can a player not do it? They spend 500 points on their list to pull the nurgle sacrifice, not counting the defence line and quad gun. TBH if someone wants to spend a third on their list for a throw away tactic let them.

Because it's gamey and stupid and they should play the game properly?

 Testify wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Why can a player not do it? They spend 500 points on their list to pull the nurgle sacrifice, not counting the defence line and quad gun. TBH if someone wants to spend a third on their list for a throw away tactic let them.

Because it's gamey and stupid and they should play the game properly?

Why is your definition of "proper" the right one?

Theirs follows all the rules of the game. It's not insane. It's not overpowered.

 Testify wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Why can a player not do it? They spend 500 points on their list to pull the nurgle sacrifice, not counting the defence line and quad gun. TBH if someone wants to spend a third on their list for a throw away tactic let them.

Because it's gamey and stupid and they should play the game properly?

And how are they not playing the game properly? Do you really think the Papa Nurgle is gonna be pissed that a bunch of Cultists were slaughtered in his name? RAW the unit can assault the Quad Gun. If doing this broke the rules then it would not be playing the game "properly".

Happyjew wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Why can a player not do it? They spend 500 points on their list to pull the nurgle sacrifice, not counting the defence line and quad gun. TBH if someone wants to spend a third on their list for a throw away tactic let them.

Because it's gamey and stupid and they should play the game properly?

And how are they not playing the game properly? Do you really think the Papa Nurgle is gonna be pissed that a bunch of Cultists were slaughtered in his name? RAW the unit can assault the Quad Gun. If doing this broke the rules then it would not be playing the game "properly".

ATM it's both Raw and RAI based on the rules.
Personally I think Gamey is flyer spam but hey it's part of the game so it's all good

rigeld2 wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Why can a player not do it? They spend 500 points on their list to pull the nurgle sacrifice, not counting the defence line and quad gun. TBH if someone wants to spend a third on their list for a throw away tactic let them.

Because it's gamey and stupid and they should play the game properly?

Why is your definition of "proper" the right one?

Why is *yours*?

I am of the opinion that cheesy and exploitative rules interpretations should be shunned in game. If you disagree, feel free to state why.

 Testify wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Why can a player not do it? They spend 500 points on their list to pull the nurgle sacrifice, not counting the defence line and quad gun. TBH if someone wants to spend a third on their list for a throw away tactic let them.

Because it's gamey and stupid and they should play the game properly?

Why is your definition of "proper" the right one?

Why is *yours*?

I am of the opinion that cheesy and exploitative rules interpretations should be shunned in game. If you disagree, feel free to state why.

Define Cheesy?

All necron flyer spam?
Flying Circus Daemon lists?

Proper to me is anything allowed within the ruleset.

Testify, you are claiming that doing something the game allows is not playing the game "properly'. How is following the rules not playing properly? Is it cheesy? Yes. Does it exploit the rules? Yes. But (and this is the important bit) it is perfectly legal.
When GK cam out everyone cried CHEESE!!!
When Necrons came out everyone cried CHEESE!!!!
Now that CSM has come out, guess what everyone is crying?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Quad gun is a Gun emplacement, which has a Toughness and wound count and armor save

So? You still can't assault terrain pieces.

Happyjew wrote:If you cannot charge it, how do you get into assault with it and thus be able to attack it?

You get into close combat with the unit that is firing it.

Without an enemy unit there, it's not an enemy anything.

But if you are in cc with only the unit firing it, you are not in combat with the Gun Emplacement, and thus cannot attack it as it is a separate "unit".