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Cheesy is bad?
So 3 units of long fangs for SW? The green tide for orks? BA razorspam with fast vindicators and Baal pred support? Guard blobs with leaf blowers?
That's not only how the army is played but also how the fluff and army design goes.

What is exploitative about an enemy throwing away 200+ points to get power weapons in a few units until you blow up one of his HQ choices? It's a valid tactic, I hate to point it out but Chaos tend to throw cultists under the wheels of things all the time. The fluff and the codex make it clear. If you don't like the meta game that is one thing but I don't think this is going to be a tactic you see in tournaments, it's probably something people will try for a bit of fun with friends where it's a "Forging the narrative" kind of game.

 Ailaros wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Quad gun is a Gun emplacement, which has a Toughness and wound count and armor save

So? You still can't assault terrain pieces.

Happyjew wrote:If you cannot charge it, how do you get into assault with it and thus be able to attack it?

You get into close combat with the unit that is firing it.

Without an enemy unit there, it's not an enemy anything.

Tidbit:
"Terrain type: Battlefield Debris (Defence Lines)" pg 114 bgb

Nowhere does it state the quad gun is terrain

The Quad Gun is a Gun Emplacement, rules for which are under "Battlefield Debris" which makes it Difficult Terrain.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Define Cheesy?

I don't have to.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Proper to me is anything allowed within the ruleset.

Good for you. Let me know what your opponent says when you bring on your reserves in his game turn.

 Testify wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Define Cheesy?

I don't have to.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Proper to me is anything allowed within the ruleset.

Good for you. Let me know what your opponent says when you bring on your reserves in his game turn.

And where does it say that reserves can come in on the opponents turn (barring certain special abilities like Ethereal Interception or Phased Reinforcements)?

Happyjew wrote:

 Testify wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Define Cheesy?

I don't have to.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Proper to me is anything allowed within the ruleset.

Good for you. Let me know what your opponent says when you bring on your reserves in his game turn.

And where does it say that reserves can come in on the opponents turn (barring certain special abilities like Ethereal Interception or Phased Reinforcements)?

Hell if I know as the first words go

"At the start of your turn 2" pg 124

"At the start of your turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

 Testify wrote:
"At the start of turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

Actually read it again

"At the start of your turn 3" PG 124 BGB

 Testify wrote:
"At the start of turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

Funny how my copy of the rulebook says "At the start of your Turn Three..." (emphasis mine).

 Testify wrote:
"At the start of turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

"At the start of your turn 3" PG 124 BGB

Also they have no allowance to move onto the board as it is your opponents Movement phase.

You are incorrect.

 Testify wrote:
"At the start of turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

Oh look - its the same argument you've tried before and were proven wrong.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Testify wrote:
"At the start of turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

Actually read it again

"At the start of your turn 3" PG 124 BGB

Happyjew wrote:

 Testify wrote:
"At the start of turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

Funny how my copy of the rulebook says "At the start of your Turn Three..." (emphasis mine).

DeathReaper wrote:

 Testify wrote:
"At the start of turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

"At the start of your turn 3" PG 124 BGB

Also they have no allowance to move onto the board as it is your opponents Movement phase.

You are incorrect.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Testify wrote:
"At the start of turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

Oh look - its the same argument you've tried before and were proven wrong.

Four people pointed out a typo in my original post, ignoring the crux of what I was saying.

I'll correct the typo, try to grow up and address the point rather than correcting a typo and acting like you've proved something.

OK. You have shown permission for a Reserve roll for an opponents unit. Now where does it give permission to move the unit in your opponents Movement phase?

 Testify wrote:
Four people pointed out a typo in my original post, ignoring the crux of what I was saying.

I'll correct the typo, try to grow up and address the point rather than correcting a typo and acting like you've proved something.

Fixing the typo disproves your argument immediately.
And I didn't note the typo - I noted that you've brought this argument up before unsuccessfully.

rigeld, the rule states you roll for any remaining unit in reserve. It does not specify your units just any unit. So RAW you roll on your turn for your enemies units. Of course they still do not have permission to be moved as only your units can move during your Movement phase.

 Testify wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

 Testify wrote:
"At the start of turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

So yeah. Your opponent's turn 3, he rolls for all remaining units in reserve. Hey presto, your assualt marines get to come on.

Ironic that "rules lawyers" didn't think to read the rule fully before declaring me wrong

"At the start of your turn 3" PG 124 BGB

Also they have no allowance to move onto the board as it is your opponents Movement phase.

You are incorrect.

Four people pointed out a typo in my original post, ignoring the crux of what I was saying.

I'll correct the typo, try to grow up and address the point rather than correcting a typo and acting like you've proved something.

I did address the point when I said " they have no allowance to move onto the board as it is your opponents Movement phase."

Also the context of P. 124 clarifies that you roll for your reserves, not your opponents, as the context of "that unit arrives this turn." references only units that can actually move, which are your units, not your opponents.

So, your argument is incorrect.

Happyjew wrote:
rigeld, the rule states you roll for any remaining unit in reserve. It does not specify your units just any unit. So RAW you roll on your turn for your enemies units. Of course they still do not have permission to be moved as only your units can move during your Movement phase.

Only if you ignore context.

Oh I agree completely, however from a strict RAW standpoint, you roll for your reserves AND for enemy units still in Reserve.

Of course we all know where a strict RAW interpretation in a game will lead.

Happyjew wrote:
OK. You have shown permission for a Reserve roll for an opponents unit. Now where does it give permission to move the unit in your opponents Movement phase?

The reserve special rule over-rides the general movement rule. It specifically says "the unit must move onto the table from the controlling player's table edge". RAW, you roll for and move on during both players' turns.

Obviously I assume that all of you guys do this. If you don't, you're house ruling and may as well claim your gaurdsmen are T7, right?

 Testify wrote:

Happyjew wrote:
OK. You have shown permission for a Reserve roll for an opponents unit. Now where does it give permission to move the unit in your opponents Movement phase?

The reserve special rule over-rides the general movement rule. It specifically says "the unit must move onto the table from the controlling player's table edge". RAW, you roll for and move on during both players' turns.

Obviously I assume that all of you guys do this. If you don't, you're house ruling and may as well claim your gaurdsmen are T7, right?

Only if you ignore the context of the reserve rules.

Elaborate?

The rules clearly state that you roll for ALL units in reserve. It then explicitly gives you permission, in fact it orders you, to move them on. Regardless of whose turn it is.

How does context change this?

 Testify wrote:
Elaborate?

The rules clearly state that you roll for ALL units in reserve. It then explicitly gives you permission, in fact it orders you, to move them on. Regardless of whose turn it is.

How does context change this?

The context shows you that it's the active player's units that are rolled for.
Taking the literal word of the rules leads to literally unworkable rules.

Testify, why? Just why do you bring up a nonsensical arguement rather than clearly explain why you don't like the tactic described in the OP?

rigeld2 wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Elaborate?

The rules clearly state that you roll for ALL units in reserve. It then explicitly gives you permission, in fact it orders you, to move them on. Regardless of whose turn it is.

How does context change this?

The context shows you that it's the active player's units that are rolled for.
Taking the literal word of the rules leads to literally unworkable rules.

It's not literally unworkable. The rules give you permission to move your units on, just not assault or shoot. RAW there's nothing to stop you doing this.

 Testify wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Elaborate?

The rules clearly state that you roll for ALL units in reserve. It then explicitly gives you permission, in fact it orders you, to move them on. Regardless of whose turn it is.

How does context change this?

The context shows you that it's the active player's units that are rolled for.
Taking the literal word of the rules leads to literally unworkable rules.

It's not literally unworkable. The rules give you permission to move your units on, just not assault or shoot. RAW there's nothing to stop you doing this.

No, the rule set as a whole is literally unworkable unless you allow for context and normal English usage for words.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Testify wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Elaborate?

The rules clearly state that you roll for ALL units in reserve. It then explicitly gives you permission, in fact it orders you, to move them on. Regardless of whose turn it is.

How does context change this?

The context shows you that it's the active player's units that are rolled for.
Taking the literal word of the rules leads to literally unworkable rules.

It's not literally unworkable. The rules give you permission to move your units on, just not assault or shoot. RAW there's nothing to stop you doing this.

No, the rule set as a whole is literally unworkable unless you allow for context and normal English usage for words.

I fail to see how context changes anything about this.

"At the start of your turn 3, roll for any remaining units in reserve. If the roll is a 3 or more, that unit arrives this turn".

Unless you're saying that taking the rules literally all the time is absurd...which is excatly what I said, which you vehemently disagreed with. Honestly I think you're disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing.

No the difference is that you are against a tactic that is allowed in the rules while propping up a rule that is not allowed in the rules.

The quad gun tactic runs on allowances to assault the gun and wipe out cultists due to a power that effects all models in range.

The reserves tactic ignores context.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
No the difference is that you are against a tactic that is allowed in the rules while propping up a rule that is not allowed in the rules.

The quad gun tactic runs on allowances to assault the gun and wipe out cultists due to a power that effects all models in range.

The reserves tactic ignores context.

Please point out the RAW for this "context". I could claim that the "context" means my guardsmen are T7. But they're not.

The reserve rules VERY CLEARLY STATE how to bring on reserves. You roll for all available units, and on a 3+, they move onto the board. It couldn't be clearer.

Happyjew wrote:
Testify, you are claiming that doing something the game allows is not playing the game "properly'. How is following the rules not playing properly? Is it cheesy? Yes. Does it exploit the rules? Yes. But (and this is the important bit) it is perfectly legal.
When GK cam out everyone cried CHEESE!!!
When Necrons came out everyone cried CHEESE!!!!
Now that CSM has come out, guess what everyone is crying?

Because of the WAAC mentality that is driving people away from the hobby and the way they are making the lists, regardless of what army they bring.

 Testify wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
No the difference is that you are against a tactic that is allowed in the rules while propping up a rule that is not allowed in the rules.

The quad gun tactic runs on allowances to assault the gun and wipe out cultists due to a power that effects all models in range.

The reserves tactic ignores context.

Please point out the RAW for this "context". I could claim that the "context" means my guardsmen are T7. But they're not.

The reserve rules VERY CLEARLY STATE how to bring on reserves. You roll for all available units, and on a 3+, they move onto the board. It couldn't be clearer.

Not really, stop making up some BS rules arguement which you can't cite rules to backup. Than when someone proves you wrong all you do is say the same thing.
So back it up