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Are models assaulting a unit behind an Aegis Defence Line slowed by difficult terrain?

As the Aegis is Battlefield Debris it conts as difficult terrain.
Models are counted as being in base-to-base if in contact with the wall, so don't actually cross the wall.

I assumed the assaulting unit would still need to measure to the unit (rather than the wall) and would still be slowed by the terrain.
My opponent assumed he only need to make contact with the wall and wouldn't be slowed by it.

If assaulting into or on he's slowed by it. IIRC
So yes he's slowed in this case.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
If assaulting into or on he's slowed by it. IIRC
So yes he's slowed in this case.

You're not doing either though if you're simply putting your base in base contact with the terrain. You are neither in nor on it at that point.

 Kevin949 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
If assaulting into or on he's slowed by it. IIRC
So yes he's slowed in this case.

You're not doing either though if you're simply putting your base in base contact with the terrain. You are neither in nor on it at that point.

Does assaulting through difficult terrain not count when you don't have to get into BTB however you still measure to the unit for charge range?

pg 104 says that models in BTB and within 2" of the line are considered to be in BTB so the Charger only has to measure to the line itself to complete the charge.

misread, in a rush... my bad... so yea, stick your def lin in terrain

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
If assaulting into or on he's slowed by it. IIRC
So yes he's slowed in this case.

You're not doing either though if you're simply putting your base in base contact with the terrain. You are neither in nor on it at that point.

Does assaulting through difficult terrain not count when you don't have to get into BTB however you still measure to the unit for charge range?

The rule does say that as long as the defender and attacker are in both in B2B of the defence line/barricade and within 2" of each other they are considered to be in b2b with each other despite not actually being so (and they actually reference this in response to charge moves, not just regular assault phase stuff). The rules for assaulting through terrain only cover moving into or through terrain, which if you move into base contact with terrain you are doing neither of those, technically.

A charge fails when the charge range is insufficient to reach the enemy though.

See page 22, 2nd column, 2nd paragraph.

Your charger just doesn't have to end in actual b2b contact with the enemy as long as he satisfies the conditions on pg. 104. He still needs to charge distance to reach him.

 Kevin949 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
If assaulting into or on he's slowed by it. IIRC
So yes he's slowed in this case.

You're not doing either though if you're simply putting your base in base contact with the terrain. You are neither in nor on it at that point.

Does assaulting through difficult terrain not count when you don't have to get into BTB however you still measure to the unit for charge range?

The rule does say that as long as the defender and attacker are in both in B2B of the defence line/barricade and within 2" of each other they are considered to be in b2b with each other despite not actually being so (and they actually reference this in response to charge moves, not just regular assault phase stuff). The rules for assaulting through terrain only cover moving into or through terrain, which if you move into base contact with terrain you are doing neither of those, technically.

Good call Kevin, still new to 6th I suppose. Getting the hang of it quickly, I don't mean to come off as a piece of work like I'm sure I do but it's just how I learn.

Thanks for the quotes and corrections

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Good call Kevin, still new to 6th I suppose. Getting the hang of it quickly, I don't mean to come off as a piece of work like I'm sure I do but it's just how I learn.

Thanks for the quotes and corrections

You didn't come off as anything of the sort, to me. Though, I know I ruffle a few feathers myself around here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shandara wrote:
A charge fails when the charge range is insufficient to reach the enemy though.

See page 22, 2nd column, 2nd paragraph.

Your charger just doesn't have to end in actual b2b contact with the enemy as long as he satisfies the conditions on pg. 104. He still needs to charge distance to reach him.

Charge range for assaulting a unit in base contact with a barricade is base contact with the other side of the barricade, however.

Does this mean the ADL does not really help the defender if being assaulted?

Without my RB in front of my, I beleive ADL offers a 4+ cover save against range, correct? Is that only if a model is right up against the wall or if anywhere within the wall? What if the ADL is a rectangle w/ 25 cultists (or how many it can hold) inside of it? Do they all benefit from a 4+ cover?

I saw the gun emplacement question in another thread but do not think it was agreed upon in consensus, What about a gun emplacement? Does it get the 4+ cover no matter where it is placed within the ADL?

Apologies for the noobness.

I had planned on packing 30 (if possible) cultists in an ADL with a quad gun and 3 flamers. Possibly backed up by a heavy. Want to gauge if the 100 points would be better used somewhere else.

Though I had some great ideas for a very chaosy looking ADL.

If the ADL blocks 25% or more of the model from hte firing model it gets the cover save.

Hmmm, I have yet to use one. Will take some playtesting to see how wounds and removed casualties will play out.

Has anyone used the ADL in their battles? If so do tell...

I played in a team tournament this past weekend and my buddy had an ADL. He put 10-20 guardsmen behind the wall with a Platoon Command squad. It worked very well. The quad gun more then paid for itself in every game. We took it as anti-air and then never faced any flyers. The only FMC we faced was kept out of LoS, and never left the ground.

I'll be taking it in more games, flyer or not.

 Skerr wrote:
Does this mean the ADL does not really help the defender if being assaulted?

Without my RB in front of my, I beleive ADL offers a 4+ cover save against range, correct? Is that only if a model is right up against the wall or if anywhere within the wall? What if the ADL is a rectangle w/ 25 cultists (or how many it can hold) inside of it? Do they all benefit from a 4+ cover?

I saw the gun emplacement question in another thread but do not think it was agreed upon in consensus, What about a gun emplacement? Does it get the 4+ cover no matter where it is placed within the ADL?

Apologies for the noobness.

I had planned on packing 30 (if possible) cultists in an ADL with a quad gun and 3 flamers. Possibly backed up by a heavy. Want to gauge if the 100 points would be better used somewhere else.

Though I had some great ideas for a very chaosy looking ADL.

If your model(s) is/are not in b2b then the attacker still has to go over the wall. If the attacker has more models than what will fit on his side of the wall while abiding the assault rules will still have to go over the wall...it's very situational that you will only have both units on either side of the wall (maybe like two 5 man squads or a lone model assaulting a unit). Basically it just means that you either stay .5" away from the base of the barricade (not hard to do with aegis line) or your opponent is using a very small squad to assault.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:misread, in a rush... my bad... so yea, stick your def lin in terrain

Not easy when fortifications are placed before terrain, and if you're using the Alternating Placement method for terrain, then terrain has to be placed more than 3" away from other terrain (which includes fortifications).

Kevin949 wrote:If your model(s) is/are not in b2b then the attacker still has to go over the wall. If the attacker has more models than what will fit on his side of the wall while abiding the assault rules will still have to go over the wall...it's very situational that you will only have both units on either side of the wall (maybe like two 5 man squads or a lone model assaulting a unit). Basically it just means that you either stay .5" away from the base of the barricade (not hard to do with aegis line) or your opponent is using a very small squad to assault.

My thoughts exactly. Just place the models defending the ADL a fraction of an inch away from it, and you're all set.

I ran into an issue the other day. Does the 2" stretch to both sides of the wall? Would a unit in front of the wall get a cover save firing from behind the wall?

 Tomb King wrote:
I ran into an issue the other day. Does the 2" stretch to both sides of the wall? Would a unit in front of the wall get a cover save firing from behind the wall?

No I think the 2" rule is there to say you need to be in b2b with the wall and within 2" of the enemy unit, so for some possibly home made barricades, or perhaps when assault on the width side, that rule would come into play. So if you tried to make an assault move like this -

A=Attacker
D= Defender
| = Continuous wall

AAA
|
|
| (Assume 4" long, give or take)
|
|
DDD

You'd have to go through or around it, you couldn't say you're in b2b with the barricade (after charge moves) and get to make close combat attacks.

Also, cover is based on true line of sight.

It does seem odd to me though that there's such a benefit to the assaulter when it comes to barricades. But I guess assault needed some kind of boost. *Shrug*

 grendel083 wrote:
Are models assaulting a unit behind an Aegis Defence Line slowed by difficult terrain?

As the Aegis is Battlefield Debris it conts as difficult terrain.
Models are counted as being in base-to-base if in contact with the wall, so don't actually cross the wall.

I assumed the assaulting unit would still need to measure to the unit (rather than the wall) and would still be slowed by the terrain.
My opponent assumed he only need to make contact with the wall and wouldn't be slowed by it.

To work out if you pay Charge Thru Difficult Terrain penalties, I'd say you need to follow p28 (errata'd) where you would have to roll the 3D6 for the Charge Range (measure to unit, not the ADL). When you make the actual Charge Move, models that can satisfy the usual charge move rules and not actually cross the ADL do not suffer the Init 1 penalty; those that do have to cross it do.

As others have pointed out, from the defender's point of view the best tactic is to keep the defending models a small distance back from the wall to force more attackers to suffer the Init 1 penalty.

Snapshot wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
Are models assaulting a unit behind an Aegis Defence Line slowed by difficult terrain?

As the Aegis is Battlefield Debris it conts as difficult terrain.
Models are counted as being in base-to-base if in contact with the wall, so don't actually cross the wall.

I assumed the assaulting unit would still need to measure to the unit (rather than the wall) and would still be slowed by the terrain.
My opponent assumed he only need to make contact with the wall and wouldn't be slowed by it.

To work out if you pay Charge Thru Difficult Terrain penalties, I'd say you need to follow p28 (errata'd) where you would have to roll the 3D6 for the Charge Range (measure to unit, not the ADL). When you make the actual Charge Move, models that can satisfy the usual charge move rules and not actually cross the ADL do not suffer the Init 1 penalty; those that do have to cross it do.

As others have pointed out, from the defender's point of view the best tactic is to keep the defending models a small distance back from the wall to force more attackers to suffer the Init 1 penalty.

Unfortunately that's not how it works, if one model has to go over it, everyone suffers. Remember though that rolling for difficult is not the qualifier to go at Init 1, so while you may still have to roll for difficult terrain it's possible you get a low enough (or high enough?) amount to only get into b2b with the barricade.

 Kevin949 wrote:

Snapshot wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
Are models assaulting a unit behind an Aegis Defence Line slowed by difficult terrain?

As the Aegis is Battlefield Debris it conts as difficult terrain.
Models are counted as being in base-to-base if in contact with the wall, so don't actually cross the wall.

I assumed the assaulting unit would still need to measure to the unit (rather than the wall) and would still be slowed by the terrain.
My opponent assumed he only need to make contact with the wall and wouldn't be slowed by it.

To work out if you pay Charge Thru Difficult Terrain penalties, I'd say you need to follow p28 (errata'd) where you would have to roll the 3D6 for the Charge Range (measure to unit, not the ADL). When you make the actual Charge Move, models that can satisfy the usual charge move rules and not actually cross the ADL do not suffer the Init 1 penalty; those that do have to cross it do.

As others have pointed out, from the defender's point of view the best tactic is to keep the defending models a small distance back from the wall to force more attackers to suffer the Init 1 penalty.

Unfortunately that's not how it works, if one model has to go over it, everyone suffers. Remember though that rolling for difficult is not the qualifier to go at Init 1, so while you may still have to roll for difficult terrain it's possible you get a low enough (or high enough?) amount to only get into b2b with the barricade.

you're right. I was going off memory and you're absolutely right that if one goes over they all suffer. Agreed, rolling for DT and suffering the Init 1 penalty are independent of each other.