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Frankly I'm surprised these sites get any business as they're so tricky to find for the uninformed.

I'm not sure how I feel about the morality of recasting, and I certainly don't have any hobby money spare, but I've tried to find some of these sites just to look and no luck at all.

If they are as cheap as is said and were easier to fall over in a Google search, GW and FW could have a real issue.

 LunaHound wrote:
Simple question. What happens when you inject resin into plastic mold machine?

 Kanluwen wrote:
What do plastic mold machines have to do with anything?

 LunaHound wrote:
Oh I just want to know, what happens when you inject resin into a GW plastic mold machine. Since I have never tried yet, and you seem to know these things?

So... do you happen to know what happens?

What happens when you try to use those molds for resin production is you get resin castings. You just have to use a special injection molding machine that works with two-component resins like these ones:

http://www.nisseiamerica.com/special.html

The molds for polystyrene can be refitted to be used with resins easily, it depends mostly on the type of resin being used. If the resin is too thin it will run out of the mold before it sets so you have to use a fairly viscous resin with a fast set time.

 scipio.au wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scipio.au wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:

And to those in tin foil cast claiming the counterfeit items are made by FW MOLD AND EX FW EMPLOYEES.

^This is 100% false. Chinese counterfeiters does NOT use FW molds, and the majority of them are NOT FW employees,
NOR do they need any "FW" training to handle resin. They have been pirating garage kits for decades, FW is baby walk in comparison.[/size]

Any proof, or just pulling opinions[/size] out of ...whole air and calling it "100%" truth?

What do you think? Also, the more you know, more power to you sir :3

What do I think?
I know that you have no way of knowing what goes on in China in any significant detail. You have an opinion of what you think you know goes on, but you actually have no real idea of what exactly goes on - with no more certainty than anyone else here. Claiming something like "100% false" discredits your posit, as you have no way of actually knowing what goes on in a factory on the other side of the world, despite your rather arrogant and misguided assertion. Though, I guess it's a bit of a habit. I'm probably going to put you on ignore now, as this isn't the first time you've come out of left field with this kind of rant filled with ...passionate opinion presented as hard fact (despite the language barrier).

edit - tags and typo

Are you good at connecting the dots? If you are, I'll show you more info
Don't disappoint me sciipio, for someone that calls me out so strongly /gasp
I'll finish the rest of the "proof" you need when I get home, arrogance.... misguided assertion...?
Hmm its almost like you are describing another person in the thread xD
Don't worry, I'll back up everything I said later, just don't give me the same excuse of " **** your proof, I don't understand chinese"



Automatically Appended Next Post:

mechanicalhorizon wrote:


What happens when you try to use those molds for resin production is you get resin castings. You just have to use a special injection molding machine that works with two-component resins like these ones:

http://www.nisseiamerica.com/special.html

The molds for polystyrene can be refitted to be used with resins easily, it depends mostly on the type of resin being used. If the resin is too thin it will run out of the mold before it sets so you have to use a fairly viscous resin with a fast set time.

Thank you very much mechanicalhorizon, I wonder if FW uses these type of machines in china?
I assume they cost more than the single plastic material type?

Luna,

So none of these sites you're pulling images from ship to the US? Bummer.

Soliciting, advocating, or directly pirating IP on this site is a violation of our rules. Please don't do so, or we'll have to suspend your account.

You do know, however, that if you Post the links here, they will be deleted and the thread likely locked.

For obvious reasons, pretty much any website that doesn't want to get in trouble with legitimate companies cannot allow the advertising of recasting sources.

Soliciting, advocating, or directly pirating IP on this site is a violation of our rules. Please don't do so, or we'll have to suspend your account.

Thank you very much mechanicalhorizon, I wonder if FW uses these type of machines in china?
I assume they cost more than the single plastic material type?

As far as I've been told GW no longer produces anything in China except for printed material, which they've always outsourced (AFAIK). They did try to produce FW material in China when GW had their own manufacturing plant there but they had constant quality issues with more than just the models.

The first shipment of the (then new) Foundation paints had to be mostly thrown out since the paint lids were not being sealed properly in China so the paint leaked out of the pots during shipping. That's just one example of many problems I could list.

The cost of the resin injection machines is comparable to plastic injection machines. They are very similar except for how the material is fed into the mold, so about 1/3 of the machine is different than a plastic injection molding machine.

 RiTides wrote:
You do know, however, that if you Post the links here, they will be deleted and the thread likely locked.

For obvious reasons, pretty much any website that doesn't want to get in trouble with legitimate companies cannot allow the advertising of recasting sources.

Which is odd since it was said none of said sites shipped outside of China but ok, thanks for editing my post.

Stop being dense, posting such sites is against forum rules and is also incredibly stupid (assuming youre smart enough to figure out how to get around the overseas shipping dilemma). Cool casts issues started when the internet at large figured out its existence, both because GW gave em a hassle and too many customers and too little inventory makes for an empty store

chaos0xomega wrote:
Stop being dense, posting such sites is against forum rules and is also incredibly stupid (assuming youre smart enough to figure out how to get around the overseas shipping dilemma). Cool casts issues started when the internet at large figured out its existence, both because GW gave em a hassle and too many customers and too little inventory makes for an empty store

Instead of just assuming the worst of someone you don't know and being confrontational and rude; you could have just said that there are ways around the international shipping hurddle and I would have been fine with that. Not being "in the know" in such matters, I in fact was not aware that there are ways around the issue and it did not occur to me.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Sooner or later this blip will come to someone's attention in China (ie if/when Gw becomes relatively wide spread there) and they will address these individuals with the usual subtle Chinese law interpretation. Recasting/IP copying represents a significant stain on Chinas reputation and one that they will expunge as move rapidly toward the modern developed state they want to be/are.

Simply put...No.

Bigger companies have tried and failed to address China's counterfeit and knock off markets. In the best case scenario, they are ignored. In the worst case scenario, China actually rules that the original creators are in violation of the counterfeiter's right of production and sale within China and they are fined or locked out of the Chinese market for a period of time. China has no interest in addressing the issue - it isn't something which is in their interest to address, and their lack of action has nothing to do with not knowing about it.

In the modern economy, companies factor in Chinese knock offs into their business plan as assumed losses (not much different than assumed losses from shoplifters for retail stores).

QFT

If some of the biggest auto manufacturers in the world have got nowhere, GW have no chance.

If their largest restaurant chain is KFC and they have no problem copying their logos and branding, this is just a little blip.

I think this thread should be locked, its already giving counterfeit sites advertisement.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Stop being dense, posting such sites is against forum rules and is also incredibly stupid (assuming youre smart enough to figure out how to get around the overseas shipping dilemma). Cool casts issues started when the internet at large figured out its existence, both because GW gave em a hassle and too many customers and too little inventory makes for an empty store

Im going to play devil's advocate though. The first post in this thread is already advertising the counterfeiter's website.
If anything was supposed to be allowed or not allowed, we should have seen it should we not?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

boyd wrote:

FBC = flame broiled chicken
KFG = kentucky fried Gai ( chicken in cantonese )
KLG = Kentucky lucky Gai
MFC = My favorite chicken

xD

Yes, the first post did make the advertisement, but this thread is stoking curiosity to search for other sites. There are screen caps (albeit blacked out) of alternatives. These threads always end up turning into an argument about whats illegal or legal, as well as an advertisement for the many counterfeiters out there that do exist.

 Hulkster wrote:
Yes, the first post did make the advertisement, but this thread is stoking curiosity to search for other sites.

Doubleplusgood of you to point out these thoughtcrimes.

 Hulkster wrote:
Yes, the first post did make the advertisement, but this thread is stoking curiosity to search for other sites. There are screen caps (albeit blacked out) of alternatives. These threads always end up turning into an argument about whats illegal or legal, as well as an advertisement for the many counterfeiters out there that do exist.

Well thanks to this thread I'm making a dirt cheap barrel of monkys list, so yeh it's probably time to not only lock, but delete the thread too.

I will continue to buy from games workshop but anything that I consider to be vastly overpriced eg single miniatures and bitz, I'll now be getting from china, 40 pence per combi melta, booyah!

And no I'm not going to help anyone find my source so don't bother asking.

Exactly,

This thread is already contributing to further counterfeiter sales. Similar sites, although harder to find/order from, are gaining new customers as we speak. Forums should be careful not to repeat the mistakes of Bell of Lost Souls. This thread should be deleted, unless of course you actually WANT more folks to head over to Ta.... well you get the idea.

 Hulkster wrote:
I think this thread should be locked, its already giving counterfeit sites advertisement.

Says the guy with 13 gallery images, 7 of which are of models that are blatant ripoffs of GW IP.

Where does one draw the line of what is right and wrong? Is it ok to buy, paint and post pics of your models that are obvious ripoffs of GW IP? But wrong to buy a straight-up copy of a GW model?

I think if you researched it a bit, you'd see that GW has gone after those that originally made those GW IP ripoff models you have in your gallery.

They are cool models and I like them too but It really weakens your argument when you have such things in your gallery.

 Hulkster wrote:
Exactly,

This thread is already contributing to further counterfeiter sales. Similar sites, although harder to find/order from, are gaining new customers as we speak. Forums should be careful not to repeat the mistakes of Bell of Lost Souls. This thread should be deleted, unless of course you actually WANT more folks to head over to Ta.... well you get the idea.

Well as I said earlier, I think this competition is healthy for games workshop, companies that don't have direct competition stagnate, games workshop is stagnating.

Hopefully these copies become popular enough that games workshop management are forced to innovate, shake things up and cut prices to a more reasonable level, but they won't, because they are arrogant and ignorant to the real world, where competition exists.

 Hulkster wrote:
I think this thread should be locked, its already giving counterfeit sites advertisement.

True, dat. The post before your made me want to go get some delicious, oily, salty KFC chicken for lunch.

 scipio.au wrote:

 Hulkster wrote:
I think this thread should be locked, its already giving counterfeit sites advertisement.

True, dat. The post before your made me want to go get some delicious, oily, salty KFC chicken for lunch.

Here are the stuff you wanted. Since I took the effort to satisfy your curiosity, return the favor.

Tell me whats wrong in this picture. And the significance of it.
In case you aren't familiar with Eldars, you are looking at a Wraith Seer, which is a plastic resin hybrid kit with GW WraithLord and FW add on.
Get my drift?

Sigh...

Only DakkaDakka would try to defend Chinese knockoff companies.

These companies are scum and need shutting down.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Sigh...

Only DakkaDakka would try to defend Chinese knockoff companies.

These companies are scum and need shutting down.

This opinion is pretty ignorant, they are not doing anything against the law in their country.

That isn't saying much, Chinese law is...screwed up to say the least. They are making money off of someone else's hard work, and losing money from the people who actually made the original models. Chinese laws deliberately protect knockoff companies because they want to preserve Chinese business, no matter how morally objectionable.

Im assuming scipio realized the significance of the wraith lord seer photo? Anyone else want to deduce for fun? ;p

kan?

 Squigsquasher wrote:
That isn't saying much, Chinese law is...screwed up to say the least. They are making money off of someone else's hard work, and losing money from the people who actually made the original models. Chinese laws deliberately protect knockoff companies because they want to preserve Chinese business, no matter how morally objectionable.

Why should we have to pay more for an inferior product, from what I've read, many of the recasts are of a better quality than games workshop/forgeworlds own products, if it is the case, GW needs to step up their game or cut prices.

Why should we have to pay more for a storm raven than fully functional digital camera? Games Workshop do not make a premium product, they like to believe they do, but they don't. Games Workshop products are not art until they are painted by us, they are mass produced injection moulded plastic toy soldier kits, if someone can do it better and cheaper than them, then more power to them.

Games workshop as a company have existed without any major competition for around 30 years, this is the number one reason for the annual price increases we see, other companies adapt to cheap competing products from china or die out, and now it's time for Games Workshop to learn to adapt along with the rest of the consumer goods industries.

 LunaHound wrote:
Im assuming scipio realized the significance of the wraith lord seer photo? Anyone else want to deduce for fun? ;p

kan?

It's a complete resin kit not made by GW/FW......

Mike712 wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:
Im assuming scipio realized the significance of the wraith lord seer photo? Anyone else want to deduce for fun? ;p

kan?

It's a complete resin kit not made by GW/FW......

See, that was easy and fast, 100% spot on

I am a big fan of cheap foreign recasters, I get lots from them .
It's not really sales lost by GW either, I would not buy anything if I had to pay GW or FW ridiculous prices.
I hope this recaster does not give up after this small hurdle.

projectkmo wrote:

 Hulkster wrote:
I think this thread should be locked, its already giving counterfeit sites advertisement.

Says the guy with 13 gallery images, 7 of which are of models that are blatant ripoffs of GW IP.

Where does one draw the line of what is right and wrong? Is it ok to buy, paint and post pics of your models that are obvious ripoffs of GW IP? But wrong to buy a straight-up copy of a GW model?

I think if you researched it a bit, you'd see that GW has gone after those that originally made those GW IP ripoff models you have in your gallery.

They are cool models and I like them too but It really weakens your argument when you have such things in your gallery.

Hey, I never said what my own opinion was on whether its right or wrong, or where I draw the line. As you can see in my gallery, I have been around the block when it comes to rare minis. I just think, that as a site and community, if you frown upon promoting counterfeit sites then lock this thread. The curious will stumble upon all the alternatives that are out there, just as I did when I saw "hey somebody makes primarch models that dont exist!"

These threads always seem to turn into a debate about the evils of GW or those dastardly Chinese and there counterfeiting ways.

All I'm saying is that is that these piracy debates always seem to promote piracy. If as a community that is not something you want to do, a la what happened when belloflostsouls revealed miniatureshobby, then you should lock the thread.

Mike712 wrote:

 Squigsquasher wrote:
That isn't saying much, Chinese law is...screwed up to say the least. They are making money off of someone else's hard work, and losing money from the people who actually made the original models. Chinese laws deliberately protect knockoff companies because they want to preserve Chinese business, no matter how morally objectionable.

Why should we have to pay more for an inferior product, from what I've read, many of the recasts are of a better quality than games workshop/forgeworlds own products, if it is the case, GW needs to step up their game or cut prices.

Why should we have to pay more for a storm raven than fully functional digital camera? Games Workshop do not make a premium product, they like to believe they do, but they don't. Games Workshop products are not art until they are painted by us, they are mass produced injection moulded plastic toy soldier kits, if someone can do it better and cheaper than them, then more power to them.

Games workshop as a company have existed without any major competition for around 30 years, this is the number one reason for the annual price increases we see, other companies adapt to cheap competing products from china or die out, and now it's time for Games Workshop to learn to adapt along with the rest of the consumer goods industries.

 LunaHound wrote:
Im assuming scipio realized the significance of the wraith lord seer photo? Anyone else want to deduce for fun? ;p

kan?

It's a complete resin kit not made by GW/FW......

You are missing the point. The sculptors and model designers of GW and FW put a lot of effort into making those models. Recasters are making money off of someone else's hard work, and drawing money away from the people who put all that effort into making those models.

Suppose you were a painter. You spent weeks painting beautiful landscape pictures. And then some bastard comes along, copies the picture, and sells it, making money off of your effort. And then because his prices are cheaper, you don't get any money for the painting that you had made. You would be angry. After all, you would deserve the money for your hard work, not some thief.

And that is exactly the case here. Recasting is theft. Theft is illegal and detestable. By buying recasts you are stealing money from the sculptors who deserve said money, and giving it to filthy criminals. So before you click the buy button, think about the blood sweat and tears that went into making the original model, before you give your money to some sweaty Chinese copycat.