Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all. I'm shooting for a decently competitive list here. The only intentionally not-optimized part is the multiples of 3 marines for IW fluffiness:

CSM - 1489p

Warpsmith, VotLW - 115p
Warpsmith, VotLW - 115p

11 Chaos Marines, 2x flamer, LC, VotLW, ubergrit - 211p
11 Chaos Marines, 2x flamer, LC, VotLW, ubergrit - 211p
12 Chaos Marines, LC, VotLW, 2x PG - 213p
6 Chaos Marines, melta, VotLW - 113p

3x LC Predator - 140p
3x LC Predator - 140p
3x LC Predator - 140p
Aegis Line - 100p

510p

CCS, AC - 60p
PCS, AC - 40p
20 inf, 2x AC - 140p
20 inf, 2x AC - 140p
Vendetta - 130p

Comments? Criticisms?

other then veterins of da long war makes everything really expensive your fine really ( unless you know your fighting marines then keep it )

Why predators over oblits or havocs with autocannons/flak missiles. Seems like the aline is much better for infantry than for tanks.

Warpsmiths are sorta mediocre. I prefer most of the other hq choices. I get that you want to stay at the aline and fix your tanks but its just not that effective.

Also you need transports for your units or they will get shot to heck.

How are your chaos marines taking las cannons and 2 assault weapons?

I agree, too many preds. I know the warpsmiths can repair them but I would think about taking an IG mortar tank instead, at least one squad of havocs with autocannons instead. It's not necessary to have the oblits though. Or maybe switching one to a dakkapred or vindi would do the trick. Moar Mortars. The vendetta is really your best tank hunter, you need stuff that kills infantry and removes them from objectives at long range, since you do not have a lot of assault punch in your list.

jbsnv wrote:other then veterins of da long war makes everything really expensive your fine really ( unless you know your fighting marines then keep it )

I've spent 50 points all in all On veterans, I figure that is worth it for the leadership/rerolls, and it's kind of a fluff point as well as IW are a legion.

Icelord wrote:Why predators over oblits or havocs with autocannons/flak missiles. Seems like the aline is much better for infantry than for tanks.

Warpsmiths are sorta mediocre. I prefer most of the other hq choices. I get that you want to stay at the aline and fix your tanks but its just not that effective.

Also you need transports for your units or they will get shot to heck.

The aegis line is full of IG, and the predators put out more hurt. Between a vendetta and quad gun, I should be ok for AA.

I don't know why you think I want my warpsmiths to sit around fixing tanks, much too expensive. They exist to shatter defenses and help in combat. I could swap one for a lord but they just don't have any utility without being expensive.

All of my vehicles are hard to kill, putting my marines into boxes would just give the enemy a target for their multilasere and auto cannons, while restricting my unit size and cutting my anti infantry shooting greatly.

Spellbound wrote:How are your chaos marines taking las cannons and 2 assault weapons?

These LCs are lightning claws, though a basic power sword could potentially be better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Meade wrote:
I agree, too many preds. I know the warpsmiths can repair them but I would think about taking an IG mortar tank instead, at least one squad of havocs with autocannons instead. It's not necessary to have the oblits though. Or maybe switching one to a dakkapred or vindi would do the trick. Moar Mortars. The vendetta is really your best tank hunter, you need stuff that kills infantry and removes them from objectives at long range, since you do not have a lot of assault punch in your list.

So you advocate a griffon mortar? The IG side plus quad gun brings 4 twin linked AC after orders and 4 more normal AC. Do I really need 4 more? With 22 über grit guys that reroll vs loyalists first round and 2 characters I hoped I would have assault handled, as long as I just focus fire down anything above grey hunter level from range.

 ph34r wrote:
So you advocate a griffon mortar? The IG side plus quad gun brings 4 twin linked AC after orders and 4 more normal AC. Do I really need 4 more? With 22 über grit guys that reroll vs loyalists first round and 2 characters I hoped I would have assault handled, as long as I just focus fire down anything above grey hunter level from range.

I think the colossus is great. It's AP 3 and denies cover. If there is one lone scoring unit hiding behind a hill out of LOS, you have a good chance of killing it.

Manticores are technically the most competitive though. It's also barrage. A couple of those and a vendetta, now we are talking competitive. I am a lot more afraid of manticores than I am of lascannon preds.

The HW teams you could switch to mortars as well, my main point there was that the autocannon havocs are more cost effective than with flakk missiles and they do a good job at AA as well, especially with the quad.

Also I am not cool enough to know what uber grit refers to. I'm still not convinced vanilla CSM's are competitive. I would rather have one or two at most squads of plague marines, and the rest are small 10 man units of cultists that are just too many for the enemy to shoot at while being distracted by the harder stuff. Not to mention being useful tactically for bubble wrapping, denying deepstrikers in the backfield and such.

How are you putting 2 autocannons in those IG inf squads...

Meade wrote:I think the colossus is great. It's AP 3 and denies cover. If there is one lone scoring unit hiding behind a hill out of LOS, you have a good chance of killing it.

Manticores are technically the most competitive though. It's also barrage. A couple of those and a vendetta, now we are talking competitive. I am a lot more afraid of manticores than I am of lascannon preds.

The HW teams you could switch to mortars as well, my main point there was that the autocannon havocs are more cost effective than with flakk missiles and they do a good job at AA as well, especially with the quad.

Also I am not cool enough to know what uber grit refers to. I'm still not convinced vanilla CSM's are competitive. I would rather have one or two at most squads of plague marines, and the rest are small 10 man units of cultists that are just too many for the enemy to shoot at while being distracted by the harder stuff. Not to mention being useful tactically for bubble wrapping, denying deepstrikers in the backfield and such.

I think I will definitely go down the Colossus road, with how much anti tank I have I think the s10 ordnance would be wasted; I'd rather kill more tough to dislodge infantry.

I agree with you about the autocannon havocs being great, but honestly I am not that worried about more air units or more autocannon targets. Also, having the triplicate of predators works well with the Iron Warriors' favored number of three.

Uber grit refers to the combination of bolter+bolt pistol+ccw. Essentially a better version of the old true grit in that you have your bolter, you have your dual wield in close combat, and you have your +1 attack for charging. The best of all worlds.

As for plague marines I agree that they seem competitive but for my purposes I am trying to be a fluff-driven fool and keep my Iron Warriors unmarked.

Somedude593 wrote:How are you putting 2 autocannons in those IG inf squads...

You may note that they are 20 man squads! Hence, 2 autocannons.

I actually messed up and overpaid for those IG squads, so I will be uploading a New And Improved list soon!

Just because you have 20 men in a squad doesnt mean you can have 2 autocannons in it...... You have to buy a separate squad and put and autocannon in that..... If you are blobbing 2 squads together then you have to tell us

 Somedude593 wrote:
Just because you have 20 men in a squad doesnt mean you can have 2 autocannons in it...... You have to buy a separate squad and put and autocannon in that..... If you are blobbing 2 squads together then you have to tell us

You cant actually take 20 guardsman in a single unit so he probably posted in confidence that it was a blob squad of two infantry squads with an autocannon a piece.

 Somedude593 wrote:
Just because you have 20 men in a squad doesnt mean you can have 2 autocannons in it...... You have to buy a separate squad and put and autocannon in that..... If you are blobbing 2 squads together then you have to tell us

Seeing as it is impossible to put 20 men in an IG squad (or any number other than 10!) I figured the blobbing nature would be self explanatory.


EDIT: Ninja'd by seconds Tomb King

Wow... i completely forgot that 10 men was the maximum.... too much time spent looking at an ork codex.... I offer my sincere apologies ... Its a pretty solid list and besides mabye putting in a leman russ i dont see any problem with it

 ph34r wrote:

 Somedude593 wrote:
Just because you have 20 men in a squad doesnt mean you can have 2 autocannons in it...... You have to buy a separate squad and put and autocannon in that..... If you are blobbing 2 squads together then you have to tell us

Seeing as it is impossible to put 20 men in an IG squad (or any number other than 10!) I figured the blobbing nature would be self explanatory.


EDIT: Ninja'd by seconds Tomb King

The is strong in this one. I would of been faster but had to double check to make sure I was right before posting it haha. The list looks good but why not trade one of those pred's for a leman russ it will give you a little more versatility and of course those much sought after pie plates.

@Somedude593
@Tomb King

A leman russ would be cool, but what's even cooler is having that pie plate ignore cover. As I only get one heavy from IG, I believe a Colossus fills that roll well. As I have so much strong anti-tank already, the battle cannon's s8 to destroy vehicles is less important and I can just shoot it at infantry all game. If it proves too fragile I might be able to cut the combi-plasma and Colossus for a basic Leman Russ, but I'd rather it be able to ignore cover on their backfield objective holders currently.

My current list version with artillery is:

CSM - 1390p

Warpsmith, VotLW - 115p
Warpsmith, VotLW - 115p

11 Chaos Marines, 2x flamer, LC, VotLW, ubergrit - 211p
11 Chaos Marines, 2x flamer, LC, VotLW, ubergrit - 211p
12 Chaos Marines, VotLW, combi-plasma, 2x PG - 218p

3x LC Predator - 140p
3x LC Predator - 140p
3x LC Predator - 140p
Aegis Line - 100p

610p

CCS, AC - 60p
PCS, AC - 40p
20 inf, 2x AC - 120p
20 inf, 2x AC - 120p
Vendetta - 130p
Colossus - 140p

Colossus is a waste of points as the scatter on any ordinance barrage is terrible. For example in 7 games of using a MoO i have only killed a space marine bike and half a squad of hormagaunts... i aimed for neither of those things..... you will most likely not be satisfied with the performance of the colossus imho

 Somedude593 wrote:
Colossus is a waste of points as the scatter on any ordinance barrage is terrible. For example in 7 games of using a MoO i have only killed a space marine bike and half a squad of hormagaunts... i aimed for neither of those things..... you will most likely not be satisfied with the performance of the colossus imho

So then have at least two manticores or a nice battery of barrage weapons. If you fire enough shots one will hit, and when it does it kills things.

Somedude593 wrote:Colossus is a waste of points as the scatter on any ordinance barrage is terrible. For example in 7 games of using a MoO i have only killed a space marine bike and half a squad of hormagaunts... i aimed for neither of those things..... you will most likely not be satisfied with the performance of the colossus imho

I think you have the rules a bit confused... MoO scatters much more than normal. A colossus with LoS to target scatters the same as a Leman Russ or any other ordnance.

Meade wrote:So then have at least two manticores or a nice battery of barrage weapons. If you fire enough shots one will hit, and when it does it kills things.

Sadly batteries are not an option for Manticores, in any case i could with the Colossus but I think it would be unnecessary IMO. If I find myself needing more anti infantry my first move would be swapping a pred for a vindicator.