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I was playing a 2v1 match yesterday with myself as tau my ally as CSM and our opponent was playing Grey Knights.

The Grey Knight player had Draigo in a squad of paladins with an apothecary to give them all feel no pain. And according to him Draigo had a 2++ invuln save because it was base 4++ and then his shield and sword took it to 2++ which i thought was odd because that gives him a 2+/2++ with feel no pain and that just seems ridiculous, so thats my first question, does he really get a 2++ from that equipment?

The next question I had was when Draigo issued a challenge to my ally's Abbadon. While they are fighting does Draigo still get his feel no pain. I could not find anything in the rulebook regarding models in a challenge still getting their squad benefits or not getting them.

*EDIT
I also forgot to ask about something else. I had shield drones on my Shas'el commander, do they give my whole squad the 4++ or just themselves.
example: He uses a sniper to fire at that squad and then hits a 6 (on either the hit or wound i can't remember which one it is) he allocates the wound where he wants and he puts it on my commander will he get to use the 4++ or does he just take the wound from the AP1 weapon?


Thank you for any help on this.

2+/3++ I believe from the Storm Shield.
His sword doesn't improve his save (it's not a Nemisis Force Sword).

As for FNP yes he should, he's still part of the unit during a challenge.

So draigo does not get a force power sword?

Common mistake for the 2++ on draigo. Titan sword is not is not a nemesis force sword. Lots of people thing that when it says "This weapon has the nemesis rule" and its a sword, it must be a nemesis force sword. Just so you know, a nemesis force sword does add 1 to an invul in cc.

He should retain FNP, however, abby should be able to deny it by using the Talon of Horus to have ID strength. He may be immune to ID but losing FNP is an effect of FNP, not ID.

As for the shields, I have no idea.

I thought FNP covered everything now? including double strength.

obsidianIV wrote:
So draigo does not get a force power sword?

Yes it's still a Force Sword, just not a Nemisis Force Sword. So doesn't improve save.

obsidianIV wrote:
I also forgot to ask about something else. I had shield drones on my Shas'el commander, do they give my whole squad the 4++ or just themselves.
example: He uses a sniper to fire at that squad and then hits a 6 (on either the hit or wound i can't remember which one it is) he allocates the wound where he wants and he puts it on my commander will he get to use the 4++ or does he just take the wound from the AP1 weapon?

Been a while since I've played against Tau, but I'm pretty sure it's only the drone that gets the save. They're more disposable wounds than any serious protection.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Praxiss wrote:
I thought FNP covered everything now? including double strength.

Instant death is the only thing FNP doesn't cover.

Good to know (not often i come across FNP).

Ok that makes sense, another tau player at the shop was telling me it gave the 4++ to the unit but I couldn't find anything in the codex or FAQ to support that.

As far as it goes though, against Draigo you have your work cut out for you. Its not a unit that you are likely to beat as most armies.

I vinidcare his shields and then the rest of my army eats him but unless you are running GK allies (I run Inquisition GK's with my sisters) you are going to have a hell of a time.

so if ID gets rid of FNP doesn't draigo have EW and how does that play out?

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
He should retain FNP, however, abby should be able to deny it by using the Talon of Horus to have ID strength. He may be immune to ID but losing FNP is an effect of FNP, not ID.

Losing FNP due to ID is under the FNP rules, not listed in the ID rules. Its and effect of ID, not FNP.

obsidianIV wrote:
so if ID gets rid of FNP doesn't draigo have EW and how does that play out?

Q: Can Feel No Pain rolls be made against unsaved Wounds
inflicted by weapons that have the Instant Death special rule? (p35)
A: No.

Q: If a model has the Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain special
rules, can it still make Feel No Pain rolls against Wounds that
inflict Instant Death (Eternal Warrior states that the model is
immune to the effects of Instant Death, after all)? (p35)
A: No.

From the main rulebook FAQ:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3000006&multiPageMode=true&start=2

Vindicare-Obsession isn't abby only str 8 with his Talon of horus, draigo is T 5 so you would be giving him a 2+ save with a 5+ feel no pain just use the deamon weapon.

I thought that draigo was either T-4 or Abby was S-5. Either way, ID him so he loses FNP.

Neither is true there. Draigo is T5 and Abby is S4.

Dont have either codex on me so eh. Guess Abby V Draigo is going to end badly for the Champion of Chaos.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
Dont have either codex on me so eh. Guess Abby V Draigo is going to end badly for the Champion of Chaos.

No, it's going to end very badly for Draigo. Abaddon will strike first with I6 vs Draigos 5 and has on averag 7.3 attacks vs Draigos 4 and Abaddon has preferred enemy Space Marines. Both are effectively S5 T5 unless Abaddon joins unit with Daemons or psykers so we're even on that front. But biggest problem comes form Draigo not having AP2 weapon, so it's Abaddons 2+ vs Draigos 3++. All things considered, you're looking at Abaddon dealing ~3.5- 4 wounds to Draigo for every wound Draigo deals on Abaddon.

Abby cannot join Daemons of Chaos units.

Indeed, assuming Abbys daemon weapon doesnt rebel he can cut through Draigos armour, while draigo only gets to hit at AP3

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Abby cannot join Daemons of Chaos units.

Why not?

They are Battle Bros.

Check out the DoC FAQ, oddly enough

Daemons have an FAQ rule specifically forbidding any of their characters or units joining or being joined by models from any other codex.

 Puretide1 wrote:
Vindicare-Obsession isn't abby only str 8 with his Talon of horus, draigo is T 5 so you would be giving him a 2+ save with a 5+ feel no pain just use the deamon weapon.

Talon of Horus has x2 str modifier. Not a +2 str mod like Talon of Tyrant.

 Skerr wrote:

 Puretide1 wrote:
Vindicare-Obsession isn't abby only str 8 with his Talon of horus, draigo is T 5 so you would be giving him a 2+ save with a 5+ feel no pain just use the deamon weapon.

Talon of Horus has x2 str modifier. Not a +2 str mod like Talon of Tyrant.

Yes and Abby is str 4, so str 8 with talon. so Draigo gets his 2+ 5+ Fnp
with Drach Abby is str 5 so Draigo would get 3++ and fnp

Slightly better but at risk to yourself.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Abby cannot join Daemons of Chaos units.
Indeed, assuming Abbys daemon weapon doesnt rebel he can cut through Draigos armour, while draigo only gets to hit at AP3

Yeah, and Abby still gets his 45 attacks at WS1 even if the daemon weapon rebels. And he gets 4++ against wound caused anyway. Even if Abby takes 4 rebels on combat, he will still on average kill Draigo before Draigo kills him. Only AP3 makes Draigo really, really bad against anyone with 2+ save.

Edit: As boneblade pointed out, it's 5 attacks, not 4. If you only include Preferred enemy and not Hatred and discount charge bonuses, Abaddon will kill Draigo in 4.4 phases and Draigo will kill abaddon in 13.7 phases.

Luide wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Abby cannot join Daemons of Chaos units.
Indeed, assuming Abbys daemon weapon doesnt rebel he can cut through Draigos armour, while draigo only gets to hit at AP3

Yeah, and Abby still gets his 4 attacks at WS1 even if the daemon weapon rebels. And he gets 4++ against wound caused anyway. Even if Abby takes 4 rebels on combat, he will still on average kill Draigo before Draigo kills him. Only AP3 makes Draigo really, really bad against anyone with 2+ save.

Abaddon will get 5 attacks base for having two Specialist Weapons.

But yes. Ever since 6th landed this match-up has become a joke for Abaddon. Reroll all hits in the first round of combat? Then reroll all 1s to hit and wound for all following rounds. Make saves on a 2+ and then laugh as Mr. Draigo just gets beat over and over and over. Moral of this story? Do not mess with the Warmaster of Chaos.

 Boneblade wrote:
...do not mess with the Warmaster of Chaos.

...as it should be

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 Puretide1 wrote:
Vindicare-Obsession isn't abby only str 8 with his Talon of horus, draigo is T 5 so you would be giving him a 2+ save with a 5+ feel no pain just use the deamon weapon.

Talon of Horus has x2 str modifier. Not a +2 str mod like Talon of Tyrant.

Yes and Abby is str 4, so str 8 with talon. so Draigo gets his 2+ 5+ Fnp
with Drach Abby is str 5 so Draigo would get 3++ and fnp

Slightly better but at risk to yourself.

oops I thought he was Str 5. Thanks.