Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been thinking about making an app for the iPad for playing Warhammer that would allow for easy list building. It would take into account the rules for what could be placed in the list, and do all calculations automatically. To save the user from the trouble of having to input all of the information themselves, it would have the rules already in it; I'll figure out some way of doing that later, this is not the question.

I wonder though how difficult it would be to negotiate the licensing deal for that, since it would be required for an app that uses rules.

Assume for this question that there are no problems with Apple that would prevent this I'm just asking in a totally generic sense.

Is the reason that there aren't a lot of Warhammer products because GW doesn't want to license products, or is it because other companies don't want to do it or the deal isn't profitable for them?

I'm also not interested in huge profits, so GW could have whatever cut they want from it; money isn't an issue.

I imagine they wouldn't license their codex copyright to anyone. Especially in a case where it's digital and could result in their rulebooks being leaked digitally.

They're touchy like that

You're describing battlescribe, which already exists and is free.

orkybenji wrote:
You're describing battlescribe, which already exists and is free.

and is terrible.

orkybenji wrote:
You're describing battlescribe, which already exists and is free.

Don't you have to enter all the rules and information yourself?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lunarman wrote:
I imagine they wouldn't license their codex copyright to anyone. Especially in a case where it's digital and could result in their rulebooks being leaked digitally.

They're touchy like that

The other major problem is that they would want people to buy the codexes, and not want people to have the information without buying them, even if they can't see all the rules. It would get into awkward stuff like having a GW employee having a code to unlock various rule sets when someone shows that they bought the associated codex.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

orkybenji wrote:
You're describing battlescribe, which already exists and is free.

Don't you have to enter all the rules and information yourself?

No you just have to have a source websight in order to make lists. However I agree it's a horable program it builds illegal lists and anyone can tamper with the information. However I find it useful for getting an Idea of what to buy to fill my point costs.

Well, they do licence things out for stuff like Warhammer Quest for the iPad.

But for "utility-apps" that directly relate to the table-top game, I would imagine they'd like to keep those to their own "digital products" line.

Another thing is likely also quality.

GW won't license out their IP to anyone.Rodeogames.co.uk probably got it, because they made two very well received, award-winning iPad games before they ever got a GW license. Now they use the basic idea they developed there to make Warhammer Quest (with, presumably, very little "innovation" in game-play allowed, cause GW wants to play it safe).

GW's just not going to take chances. Win a few "App of the year" awards and stuff, and you might have a chance with them.

GW is insanely jealous of its intellectual property. Practically the only person that they've ever partnered with is THQ to make the dawn of war video games.

Everyone else just gets a cease and desist letter.

If you really, really want to make this happen, then the first thing you're going to have to do is to hire a lawyer to make contact with GW about setting up a meeting to discuss the idea of a contract. If this is already more than you're willing to do, then it would be better to just drop the whole idea now.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Well, they do licence things out for stuff like Warhammer Quest for the iPad.

But for "utility-apps" that directly relate to the table-top game, I would imagine they'd like to keep those to their own "digital products" line.

Another thing is likely also quality.

GW won't license out their IP to anyone.Rodeogames.co.uk probably got it, because they made two very well received, award-winning iPad games before they ever got a GW license. Now they use the basic idea they developed there to make Warhammer Quest (with, presumably, very little "innovation" in game-play allowed, cause GW wants to play it safe).

GW's just not going to take chances. Win a few "App of the year" awards and stuff, and you might have a chance with them.

So they basically don't want some Warhammer related thing that sucks. It's necessary to establish proficiency first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
GW is insanely jealous of its intellectual property. Practically the only person that they've ever partnered with is THQ to make the dawn of war video games.

Everyone else just gets a cease and desist letter.

If you really, really want to make this happen, then the first thing you're going to have to do is to hire a lawyer to make contact with GW about setting up a meeting to discuss the idea of a contract. If this is already more than you're willing to do, then it would be better to just drop the whole idea now.

I also don't currently have the experience necessary yet to make an iPad app. I imagine that they'd want to see something first before they start making considerations.

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I imagine that they'd want to see something first before they start making considerations.

I imagine they're going to want to talk to your lawyer first, before sending out a cease and desist letter because you started working on something with their IP before obtaining written permission first.

 Ailaros wrote:

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I imagine that they'd want to see something first before they start making considerations.

I imagine they're going to want to talk to your lawyer first, before sending out a cease and desist letter because you started working on something with their IP before obtaining written permission first.

Yes. But they will still want to see something - non GW related - that shows you can and do deliver quality apps.

Just bootleg; those idiots wont come out of their cave and merch gak.

 DarkWind wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

orkybenji wrote:
You're describing battlescribe, which already exists and is free.

Don't you have to enter all the rules and information yourself?

No you just have to have a source websight in order to make lists. However I agree it's a horable program it builds illegal lists and anyone can tamper with the information. However I find it useful for getting an Idea of what to buy to fill my point costs.

It "builds" illegal lists because it doesn't prevent the user from building illegal lists, it warns them about the illegal list. You can also change the data catalogs by using the CatalogueEditor.jar to ensure that your data catalogs are correct and follow your respective codex. BattleScribe does not suck.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Just bootleg; those idiots wont come out of their cave and merch gak.

That's really not a good idea.

On something related to that, one of our members was saying that he wanted to make and sell Sternkreuz medals on the grounds that it wasn't against GW's unofficial IP use policy because it wasn't owned by them because I created it. Someone doesn't understand derivative work or the no third party IP policy of GW for fan created stuff. There's actually a reason behind it when I complain about crossover fiction.

Anyway, he kept saying repeatedly that GW would "just send a C&D letter" if if they did have a problem with it. Someone doesn't understand that people don't just constantly send C&D notices. It might happen once, but if anything happens again, you'll get sued.

 AresX8 wrote:
It "builds" illegal lists because it doesn't prevent the user from building illegal lists, it warns them about the illegal list.

Which I'm guessing was a very deliberate design choice... Back when Army Builder was the only software in the list building pond, when asked how they got away with making an unlicensed product that allowed you to circumvent buying a codex, it was stated that GW's criteria for allowing third party software of that nature to exist was that it shouldn't be designed in such a way that you don't need a codex, and it shouldn't prevent you from building illegal lists (which really just reinforces the first point).


So far as licensing goes... the guys behind Army Builder supposedly tried for quite some time to set up a license with GW... It never got off the ground.

 insaniak wrote:

 AresX8 wrote:
It "builds" illegal lists because it doesn't prevent the user from building illegal lists, it warns them about the illegal list.

Which I'm guessing was a very deliberate design choice... Back when Army Builder was the only software in the list building pond, when asked how they got away with making an unlicensed product that allowed you to circumvent buying a codex, it was stated that GW's criteria for allowing third party software of that nature to exist was that it shouldn't be designed in such a way that you don't need a codex, and it shouldn't prevent you from building illegal lists (which really just reinforces the first point).


So far as licensing goes... the guys behind Army Builder supposedly tried for quite some time to set up a license with GW... It never got off the ground.

From what I understand of that program, what I'm would do is basically an iPad version of it. It doesn't sound promising. If I can make a decent app that meets the unlicensed IP policy, I'm not sure if Apple would be willing to sell it since it would technically be copyright infringement.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Just bootleg; those idiots wont come out of their cave and merch gak.

That's really not a good idea.

On something related to that, one of our members was saying that he wanted to make and sell Sternkreuz medals on the grounds that it wasn't against GW's unofficial IP use policy because it wasn't owned by them because I created it. Someone doesn't understand derivative work or the no third party IP policy of GW for fan created stuff. There's actually a reason behind it when I complain about crossover fiction.

Anyway, he kept saying repeatedly that GW would "just send a C&D letter" if if they did have a problem with it. Someone doesn't understand that people don't just constantly send C&D notices. It might happen once, but if anything happens again, you'll get sued.

Understandable, but Im sure if I want to make a hat or shirt for myself Ill get away with it. Because there is a huge market for merch but they dont bother.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Just bootleg; those idiots wont come out of their cave and merch gak.

That's really not a good idea.

On something related to that, one of our members was saying that he wanted to make and sell Sternkreuz medals on the grounds that it wasn't against GW's unofficial IP use policy because it wasn't owned by them because I created it. Someone doesn't understand derivative work or the no third party IP policy of GW for fan created stuff. There's actually a reason behind it when I complain about crossover fiction.

Anyway, he kept saying repeatedly that GW would "just send a C&D letter" if if they did have a problem with it. Someone doesn't understand that people don't just constantly send C&D notices. It might happen once, but if anything happens again, you'll get sued.

Understandable, but Im sure if I want to make a hat or shirt for myself Ill get away with it. Because there is a huge market for merch but they dont bother.

If you make something for yourself they won't care because you aren't making money off of them. You can make any of those things as long as you do it yourself and don't sell them.