Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A friend is looking to start a second army. Is looking at Imperial Fists. Loves the idea of dreadnoughts. Trying to figure out if this is a viable army base:

(roughly 2500 points, to scale down at lower points games; we don't usually play 2.5k, but that's around what the points came to and can shave things down across the army to adjust it)

Darnath Lysander
Master of the Forge with Power Axe
5 TH/SS Terminators
Land Raider Crusader with multimelta

3 Ironclad Dreads with Fist/Flamer, Hammer/Melta, Ironclad Assault Launchers(?), 2 Hunter-Killer Missiles(also unsure, more so they have something to do the turn they drop)
2 Dreads with Fist/Flamer, Assault Cannon or Plasma Cannon
5 Drop Pods

2 Storm Talon Gunships with Lascannons

3-ish squads of Tactical Marines, either in Razorbacks or in Rhinos with Melta/Multimelta

Clearly it's weak against anything with a ton of Melta, but the idea is to attempt to overload the opponent's anti-tank with immediate-threat Dreads dropping in first turn, while the terminators and marines roll up.
Does it have a chance in an environment that isn't ultra-competitive?

The main thing I would say, is to grab the imperial armour update from forge world, and see if his opponents will let him proxy his drop pods for Lucius pattern drop pods. These will allow the dreads to assault on the turn they drop for a mere 15pts extra (50pts instead of 35pts for pods).

I'd also put the tacticals in pods. That will drive you're numbers up so more of your dreads hit first trun, and will keep them from being shot to pieces first round

An ADL with Sgt Telion on the Quadgun would also give you more extra firepower, a good unit of scoring troops, and a 2+ cover save behind the ADL. Plus, all Telion's shots are precision at BS 6, so should be a massive threat and great vs light armor / flyers / characters.

If you did 2 Force orgs at this point level you could even bring a second ADL and a librarian to port your terminators around, just hide him behind lysander and the termies and you don't even have to upgrade him

Just ideas off the top of my head

Hope that helps

Considered Lucius pods as an option; are they generally considered 'fair', or does that tend to get a lot of yelling about broken Forge World stuff? The local area is still sort of testing the waters on IA units, so I'm not sure what is usually thought of as overpowered and what is fine.

Ah, didn't think of podding in the marines to push more Dreads to first-turn status. Good idea. Dreads pop in and wreck things, Tactical Marines show up and play cleanup.
Now that I think about it, could actually lose the Land Raider at that point, in favor of more Tac squads. Unless you think the Raider full of facebeating is a good idea along with the rest of the army like it is.

How's the loadout on the Dreads? Are Assault Launchers worth taking? Hunter-Killers? Am I doing things wrong with suggesting one gun and one fist on the normal Dreads? Are Assault Cannons good or do I just irrationally like them? Plasma worth it when you're right in the enemy's face?

I fight against a Lucius pattern every weekend. Wasn't a pleasant surprise, but I had plenty of ways to deal with it.

If my Thousand Sons can fight them and win, surely your opponents will adapt. I say try at least 2.

..and tell 'em to quit their whinin' about IA

 Brometheus wrote:
..and tell 'em to quit their whinin' about IA

Oh, no whining yet...just trying to head it off at the pass.

id say chainfist on the ironclads instead of the hammer, coz str 10 +2d6 armour pen will kill almost anything...
otherwise, more pods !
and you could take out the raider and DS the terminators ( to go with the theme of your army ? )

I would stay clear of Forge World stuff. Personally I think it's unnecessary and poorly balanced. Not that I'd turn down a game from someone using it, but I'd grumble inside a bit. Sticking with the basic codex eliminates all those problems.

Dreads can do anything, depending on what you give them. So you don't need to worry about gaps in fulfilling needed roles. And if you don't glue the arms on, you can adjust weapons depending on mood and testing.

Do you want to go full drop? It's viable. I might have a unit of scouts on the board just to camp your home objective. The MotF is going to be bolstering a ruins (as is Lysander) might as well camp some snipers in them. A full squad of sternguard in a pod makes for a good unit for Lysander to join if you are going to ditch the termis/LR

I'm not a huge fan of plasma cannons on dreads. Possibly because my scatter die hates me. Assault cannons are very nice. Good all around weapon that can do anything.

I think the assault launchers are worth it. Not sure about the HKs. They are a backup in case the melta fails to kill what you are shooting first turn. I'd take them if I was planning on starting on the table, to shoot as I walked across the board. But I'm not sure they are worth it on drop dreads.

I think one of the missile options are better then the LCs on the talons.

The hammer/chainfist is a flavor issue mostly. They both have a slight advantage at different times. But at the end of the day, the ironclad is going to wreck what it's in close combat with.

I hear that, man.. makes sense

Looking like the new direction here is:
2 Dreads in pods, flamerfist and assault cannon
3 Ironclads in Lucius Pattern pods (possibly normal instead), flamerfist and meltahammer
3 Tac squads in pods, melta/mm (plasma instead?)
Lysander, MotF, and 9 Sternguard in a pod, with a few combi-weapons on the guards; melta? Plasma?
Not much by was of anti-air, but thinking it may not be so vital to take out flyers. Maybe an Aegis with some scouts/Telion, but it depends on how many points the army is running at.
Maybe some Contemptor-Mortis Dreads if going to already dive into IA.

Should the Dreads all be Ironclad, or is it good to mix them up a bit like that?

And thanks for all the advice; my friend is really excited about this.

If you run the sternguard as a full 10 man, you have the option to combat squad them. In general, you are going to want to keep them together to maximize Lysander's bolter drill, but options are good. I would go light on the combis, as you should be using the special ammo most of the time. Having some melta is good if you need to crack open a tank, and plasma can help with 2+ armor saves. I'd just stick with a pair of c-meltas to keep points down.

Mix up the tacs. One of the perks of running a drop pod army is being able to select the right squad and drop them in the right place. So have a squad to drop next to a tank (MM/M, c-melta on the sarge) a squad to deal with hordes (HB/F, c-flamer) And one for terminators (??/P, c-plasma) The heavy weapon for that squad is to taste. I'm not a big fan of the heavies you need to pay points for in squads that are on the move, particularly plasma cannons because you can't snap fire them. There is also the flexible ML/F if you don't want to specialize.

Ironclads are good at what they do, but are specialists. The AC/DCCW(HF) dread is the tactical squad of the dreadnought world. A solid, flexible unit that does OK at a bunch of things. That's the strength of a C:SM army. Leave the specialization to the other chapters. We should keep a flexible core in ours.

Excellent idea on the tac squads, thanks for that advice, forgot about that ability.

Unsure if plasma is necessary; Dreads can smack around terminators well enough if I'm not mistaken, but a couple of shots to help out with that may not be unwelcome. Will play around with it.

Hmm, considering the thoughts on AC/DCCW Dreads may suggest to him 3 normal Dreads and 2 Ironclads, if he doesn't go the IA pod route.

Thanks for all the advice, all. I don't play Marines, so a lot of this is stuff I hadn't considered. Quite helpful.

Question on the idea of an Aegis, some Scouts, and Telion:

Is it wise to start with just one thing on the board? I realize they would all get 2+ cover, but they would draw literally the entirety of the opponent's fire if he goes first, whereas if everything is in a pod and the opponent goes first, he essentially has a wasted shooting/assault turn.

Also, if the Scouts do end up making it in, thinking Sniper Rifles to take out incidental Meltas in units, but should I go with a Heavy Bolter with Hellfire Shells, Missile Launcher, or just another Sniper Rifle?