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djones520 wrote:
Ok, looking at it from your point of view, I can see your reasoning behind it.

The way I've always looked at Balanced is an army list that doesn't overload on the uber-elite of the book. Granted for Crons that's hard to to, but flyers to me still jump out as being one of those things that having more then 1 or 2, your playing a WAAC list.

 JGrand wrote:
*Sigh* WAAC refers to a state of mind. Games who cheat, roll dice in a scummy way, move too far, ect. Competitive is what you mean. Generally, competitive players are actually nicer to game with IMO. Nothing wrong with trying to win. I think that players who don't take good lists are crazy. Why spend time with a hobby that you don't want to do well in? *Shrug*

Flyers aren't bad once you let go of 5th edition lists and mindsets.

I agree with JGrand. Usually, WAAC isn't just a competitive list. More importantly, it's the attitude of the person playing that list. Playing a strong list and playing it well to me is the sign of a good player. Now playing a list (whether strong or not) and trying to use any excuse to gain an advantage - rules lawyering, moving your units more than they can actually move, rolling your dice in secrecy and then pronouncing its results, voluntarily "forgetting" rules that work to your detriment, or just plain making up rules - that is what a WAAC player does.

Now sometimes, players who build ultra-competitive list and WAAC players go hand-in-hand, but that is not always the case. Sure there are a lot of those out there who gives the game a bad name, but there are also a lot of really good players who are really nice as well. They aren't WAAC, they just really understand the game and how to play it well.




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 jifel wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Interesting read: one of the most powerful armies in the game beaten by what is usually accepted as one of the weakest.

The perception is that they are weak, but the truth is that they are anything but weak. Most dedicated tyranid players actually feel that their armies got stronger in 6th. Sure, some aspects of 6th have hurt them, but overall the pros outweighs the cons.

As a whole, a lot of Tyranids armies are weak, but if your opponent knows what he is doing they can be disgustingly brutal. I'd give them the award for "most under-estimated codex". I love it when my first time playing a guy, he laughs about how easy to beat Nids are. I even had a guy at BeakyCon tell the head judge that I would be an "easy win" because Nids are weak, and this was Day 2 on the top table! That was my perhaps my most satisfying win of 6th edition.

I'd give it to Sisters. Still a very good army if you know what you're doing. I learned to respect them the hard way....by losing to them with my 5E grey knights! Lol.

Yeah, it's always good to give someone a little "perspective" if you know what I mean.

whoadirty wrote:
Love reading your reports jy2, especially with your cool blue bugs.

I have a question about your flyrants: how did you model the dual twin linked Devourers? From your pictures it looks like you mounted the head of a Devourer on a Deathspitter?

Correct. It's a devourer head on a deathspitter. A fairly easy conversion and looks cool also (at least to me).

Havent been viewing reps of late JY2 but I recall you and Reese having some issues with Necron flyer lists a while back due tot he recent release of 6th etc.
Whilst not a pure flyer list, out of interest have your views changed towards them?

Has anything evolved or moved on since then?

Flyers have definitely changed the game currently. They are really good units and the chances are high that you need to deal with them in competitive play. Now when building your list (for competitive play), you need to consider how you are going to deal with flyers. I think there are effectively 2 ways of dealing them without resorting to tailoring your lists specifically to fight them. Because if you tailor your list, then you will be at a disadvantage against the other competitive armies that you may well see at tournaments. Basically, my perspective of flyers is how would a Take-All-Comer's (TAC) army deal with them?

1. Bring a lot of shooting with you. Fight fire with fire. However, certain armies (daemons, tyranids, orks, certain MEQ builds, etc.) will not be able to do this.

2. For those armies who just don't have the firepower to deal with flyers, then you need resiliency of units. Bring lots of bodies or lots of resilient tanks/units. These type of armies should be able to absorb the firepower of flyer armies while trying to kill off their ground forces. Basically, due to the lack of firepower, you are almost forced to ignore the flyers for the most part and hope that your list can outlast their offense. That doesn't mean that you won't have the tools to take down flyers, but it just means you won't be able to take them down efficiently. So just focus on killing everything else on the ground.

The best lists IMO will combine both #1 and #2 - good firepower with a resilient ground-base unit. In this regard, that is why we are starting to see more and more IG blob squads as allies in competitive play. They are the resilient unit to help anchor down shooty armies.

I think blob will be very easy to counter as it becomes more popular. I for one welcome more cannon fodder.

If you have a truly balanced TAC army, you shouldn't really have to worry about countering the Blob squad. It shouldn't be an issure at all. Only unbalanced armies will have problems against them.

For my bugs, I have biovore blasts and massed gribblies (gargoyles and termagants) to handle them. My crons have massed wraiths along with tesla-destructor-spam and my grey knights have S5-stormbolter spam to deal with these types of units. And all of these are TAC lists which I don't have to change at all to fight blob squads, flyer-spam, hordes, MSU, daemon flamers/screamers or whatever.