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So I have finalized my 1850 tournament list. I wanted to run footguard, so this is my idea on how to run them competitively. The GK will be giving off warp quake to tray and free up the areas around my line so my IG can shoot (took this as a direct country to deamons). The CCS, the Priest and the Penal legion will use the tanks for cover and walk up the board to claim objectives while my main line shoots everything it can.

HQ:
CCS: 185
Powerfist
Standard
Medic
2x Melta Guns
Carapace Armor
MoF
Krak Grenades

Primaris Psyker: 70

Priest: 60
Eviscerater
Shotgun

Elites:
PBS: 110

Troops:
Vets: 175
Plasma Pistol
3x Plasma guns
Lascannon
Grenadiers

Vets: 175
Plasma Pistol
3x Plasma guns
Lascannon
Grenadiers

Penal Legion: 80

Penal Legion: 80

Heavy Support:

Leman Russ Executioner: 230
Plasma Cannons
Hull HB

Leman Russ MBT: 150
Hull HB

Leman Russ Exterminator: 220
Pask
HB sponsons
Hull HB

Fortification:
ADL: 100
Quad gun

Allies:

HQ:

Coteaz: 100

Troops:
Grey Knights: 115
Psycannon
Justicar with Halberd

Firstly, I don't get the point of the allies. It seems like you're spending an awfully large chunk of your points just to screw up deepstrikers. If you have fluff reasons, that's fine, but I don't get it for a tournament list.

Secondly, your troops section is dangerously shallow. 20 veterans and a couple of terrible penal legionnaire squads is NOT going to be enough to take and hold objectives at this points level. Once your opponent kills off a couple dozen guardsmen, he can win the game more or less regardless of what you do to him. I would seriously consider dumping allies and lightening up some of those russes to get some more vets in there.

Without Chimeras, those Vets are going to get eaten for breakfast.

I'd drop the Grenadiers upgrades and Carapace Armor on the CCS. That's 80 points your saving right there on an upgrade that unfortunately isn't that useful these days. A 4+ save is decent, but there's just so much AP4 and better around that its really not going to make a big difference.

Take out the Plasma Pistols on the Vet Sergeants as well, and that should give you enough points for 2 Chimeras, one for each Vet squad.

Ailaros wrote:Firstly, I don't get the point of the allies. It seems like you're spending an awfully large chunk of your points just to screw up deepstrikers. If you have fluff reasons, that's fine, but I don't get it for a tournament list.

Coteaz also lets me reroll to steal the initiative or force my opponent to reroll (Which came in to play in one of my test games) and shoot anything that comes out of reserves within 12 inches (Which also came up). On top of that, he is the cheapest Mastery 2 psyker I can afford.

The GK are there as a counter charge unit for whatever gets through my gunline. And, with the psycannon, they aren't half bad at shooting either.

Secondly, your troops section is dangerously shallow. 20 veterans and a couple of terrible penal legionnaire squads is NOT going to be enough to take and hold objectives at this points level. Once your opponent kills off a couple dozen guardsmen, he can win the game more or less regardless of what you do to him. I would seriously consider dumping allies and lightening up some of those russes to get some more vets in there.

I have been thinking of revamping my troops to include a Harker squad with flamers and a Heavy Flamer to outflank and objective claim. I would drop the Penal legion for that, although I feel even more naked then, with only 30 troops on the board. Also, what would I drop in the russes?

If you are too worried for your troops safety to take a transport then you need more troops.... There are much bigger and meaner things than a Chimera blowing up on your Vets. You're playing guard your models are going to die in droves to anything that looks at them funny the only real way you can counter act this is by taking more guardsmen.

I have no experience with Penal Legions but from looking at them on paper they don't seem all that great.

Your CCS is a disaster, you are paying 3x the points of a bare one to upgrade 5 dudes (and add a 6th).

To be honest I would just scrap this and start over from 1 naked CCS in a chimera and 6 naked vet squads in Chimeras. From there give your vets special weapons of choice, then give your CCS flamers (probably). Then take remaining points and buy 3 Vendettas and then Manticores or Griffons (Griffons seem better from my playtesting so far). Don't forget Marbo! After you reach 1850 points by doing this you can look at what you are lacking (early AT possibly) and sub in units over your HS slots, or possibly one troop slot (if you are confident you can keep 50 lowly guardsmen alive).

 Happygrunt wrote:
Coteaz also lets me reroll to steal the initiative or force my opponent to reroll (Which came in to play in one of my test games) and shoot anything that comes out of reserves within 12 inches (Which also came up). On top of that, he is the cheapest Mastery 2 psyker I can afford.

If one takes GK allies, Coteaz is the HQ to take, that I agree. Remember that the 12 inches is from Coteaz, not his unit. And you don't use it against Deep Strikers too often, because of Warp Quake.

 Happygrunt wrote:

KOBossy wrote:Without Chimeras, those Vets are going to get eaten for breakfast.

I'd drop the Grenadiers upgrades and Carapace Armor on the CCS. That's 80 points your saving right there on an upgrade that unfortunately isn't that useful these days. A 4+ save is decent, but there's just so much AP4 and better around that its really not going to make a big difference.

That is a 4+ save behind the aegis, so I would be getting that 4+ almost regardless of what is shooting at me.

Exactly. If you're planning on staying behind it, paying for carapace armour is just throwing points away. Forward sentries would give you 3+ cover save behind that aegis, 2+ if the firing unit was within 8".

 Happygrunt wrote:

KOBossy wrote:Take out the Plasma Pistols on the Vet Sergeants as well, and that should give you enough points for 2 Chimeras, one for each Vet squad.

The problem I have with putting everyone in a chimera is that, eventually, those chimeras will die. I would only have 2, and while they would be behind the aegis, which could survive for a while, but sooner or latter it is going to get wrecked or explode. If I wreck, I have 5+ save guys blowing in the wind, and if I explode, then I just lost half my vets.

First, you already have 5+ (well, 4+) save guys blowing in the wind. At least if that chimera wrecks, you might get them out of LOS. And on average, firepower required for exploding a chimera behind Aegis is probably enough to kill half of your vets anyway.

Woosh87 wrote:
If you are too worried for your troops safety to take a transport then you need more troops.... There are much bigger and meaner things than a Chimera blowing up on your Vets. You're playing guard your models are going to die in droves to anything that looks at them funny the only real way you can counter act this is by taking more guardsmen.

I have no experience with Penal Legions but from looking at them on paper they don't seem all that great.

Your CCS is a disaster, you are paying 3x the points of a bare one to upgrade 5 dudes (and add a 6th).

To be honest I would just scrap this and start over from 1 naked CCS in a chimera and 6 naked vet squads in Chimeras. From there give your vets special weapons of choice, then give your CCS flamers (probably). Then take remaining points and buy 3 Vendettas and then Manticores or Griffons (Griffons seem better from my playtesting so far). Don't forget Marbo! After you reach 1850 points by doing this you can look at what you are lacking (early AT possibly) and sub in units over your HS slots, or possibly one troop slot (if you are confident you can keep 50 lowly guardsmen alive).

So your suggestion is to write an entirely new list? Instead of running footguard (which is what this list is supposed to be) you are suggesting I go out and, essentially, rebuy my army? Because I do not own 6 chimeras, or any vendettas or any manticores.

Honestly, thanks for your input, but it is a little disheartening to have someone tell you you are going to have to restart your entire army.

Well if you want to run foot guard that's great. A list with only 40 guardsmen at 1850 points isn't a proper foot guard list, though. You'd need more like three times that amount of infantry to pull it off.

It's not that you need to change your style, its that there are some ways that this style works better than others. A better way is going to need more infantry.

 Ailaros wrote:
Well if you want to run foot guard that's great. A list with only 40 guardsmen at 1850 points isn't a proper foot guard list, though. You'd need more like three times that amount of infantry to pull it off.

It's not that you need to change your style, its that there are some ways that this style works better than others. A better way is going to need more infantry.

I guess I don't want to run footguard, but I don't want to run everyone in a box. I had an army like that before , and while it was fun, it was also very boring to play.

I am also so short on models that fielding 120 infantry models is really going to break the bank. This is the best I could come up with at the model count I can run.

Would dropping the allies and penal legion to maybe add a platoon and put the vets and CCS in chimeras be a better option?

Well, or try running duravets.

Take 6 veteran squads with whatever guns you want and give them carapace (with up to a couple with camo cloaks instead, if that's your persuasion). That way when small arms and bolters and other bad stuff comes nearby, you actually have some staying power against it, as 60 carapace vets are roughly as durable as 90 regular guardsmen against the most common stuff.

That way you don't need to run a horde, and you don't need to run boxes.

That or give some SiTNW conscripts a try. You can field potentially hundreds of conscripts while only needing to have the 20 models for them.

 Ailaros wrote:
Well, or try running duravets.

Take 6 veteran squads with whatever guns you want and give them carapace (with up to a couple with camo cloaks instead, if that's your persuasion). That way when small arms and bolters and other bad stuff comes nearby, you actually have some staying power against it, as 60 carapace vets are roughly as durable as 90 regular guardsmen against the most common stuff.

That way you don't need to run a horde, and you don't need to run boxes.

That or give some SiTNW conscripts a try. You can field potentially hundreds of conscripts while only needing to have the 20 models for them.

I could try combining the two (Duravets and SiTNW) or try running three of the plasma set up I have now (Minus the Carapace) in chimeras and build a platoon firebase.

So the concuss is to drop the allies, yes?