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the instant death rule, in simple terms, says that any attack with strength that is double the defenders toughness will instantly kill the target, if the target is wounded. the armor penetration rules state that if a target takes a wound from an attack that has enough armor pen, the target is not allowed to take its armor save. with these two rules in mind, my question is based on this hypothetical scenario. (im still relatively new to 40k, so if such a situation can happen please include that in your answer)

the attacking unit is holding a weapon that has 8 strength and AP 4, and the target is toughness 4 but has a 3+ armor save. logically, the attacker causes instant death because the strength is double the defenders toughness, however his armor pen isnt powerful enough to go through his targets armor, and thus the defender is allowed to take his armor save... is he killed (because of ID) or is the defender allowed to roll for his armor?

ocelot923 wrote:
the instant death rule, in simple terms, says that any attack with strength that is double the defenders toughness will instantly kill the target, if the target is wounded. the armor penetration rules state that if a target takes a wound from an attack that has enough armor pen, the target is not allowed to take its armor save. with these two rules in mind, my question is based on this hypothetical scenario. (im still relatively new to 40k, so if such a situation can happen please include that in your answer)

the attacking unit is holding a weapon that has 8 strength and AP 4, and the target is toughness 4 but has a 3+ armor save. logically, the attacker causes instant death because the strength is double the defenders toughness, however his armor pen isnt powerful enough to go through his targets armor, and thus the defender is allowed to take his armor save... is he killed (because of ID) or is the defender allowed to roll for his armor?

If he makes his armor save he is fine.
ID only really makes a showing on Multi-wound models, and with Feel No Pain rolls

ocelot923 wrote:
the instant death rule, in simple terms, says that any attack with strength that is double the defenders toughness will instantly kill the target, if the target is wounded. the armor penetration rules state that if a target takes a wound from an attack that has enough armor pen, the target is not allowed to take its armor save. with these two rules in mind, my question is based on this hypothetical scenario. (im still relatively new to 40k, so if such a situation can happen please include that in your answer)

the attacking unit is holding a weapon that has 8 strength and AP 4, and the target is toughness 4 but has a 3+ armor save. logically, the attacker causes instant death because the strength is double the defenders toughness, however his armor pen isnt powerful enough to go through his targets armor, and thus the defender is allowed to take his armor save... is he killed (because of ID) or is the defender allowed to roll for his armor?

You have a woundpoule, you assign those wounds, in this case to the model you are referring to, your model that has a save of 3+ is allowed an armor save as the AP of the weapon causing the wound is 4.
If the model in question has 2 wounds and would fail its armor save, it would be instakilled, as the strength of the weapon you used is 2x or higher that the toughness of your model.

Instant death rule applies after succesfully wounding a model (after saves have been taken) and is only relevant on multiwound models.

Instant death kicks in on *unsaved* wounds - so if you get to take a save against hiveguard harpoons you dont suffer ID until after you take and fail a save

Also, just a minor point on terminology: Armour Penetration is what happens when you're trying to damage a vehicle. Armour Piercing is what determines whether an attack ignores saves or not.

You can always take what saves are allowed against any wound. Its just if you fail a save and the wound causes ID that it kicks in.


For example, a Space Marine captain in Terminator armor has a 2+ armor save. and will get ID'd by a Krak missile. However, he gets his 2+ armor against the Krak missile. But if he fails the save he dies.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You can always take what saves are allowed against any wound. Its just if you fail a save and the wound causes ID that it kicks in.

Exactly so. But I'd still like to congratulate the OP for not asking if you even need roll to wound the target first. Because I've seen that at times, players thinking ID means you can skip wounding too. ;-)

But as said, all is handled quite the same as any other wound. The only models who will actually care about ID are multi-wound models or those that suddenly are denied the use of Feel No Pain.

@spetulhu that was actually a part of my question to that i forgot to place in. sorry about that lol