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Q: Do models chosen from Codex: Chaos Daemons and / or the White Dwarf, August 2012, Codex: Chaos Daemons official update have the Daemon special rule from the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, or do they have the Daemon army special rule from Codex: Chaos Daemons? (p27)
A: All models from Codex: Chaos Daemons and/or the White Dwarf, August 2012, Codex: Daemons official update have the Daemon army special rule listed in Codex: Chaos Daemons with the addition of the Fear special rule from the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and a 5+ invulnerable save.
I don't think so. Their codex entry says that for Soulgrinders, Daemon simply means they are immune to shaken and stunned, and deploy like other Daemons. The FAQ still says this:
Page 45 – Soul Grinders.
Leave the text in brackets for the Daemon special rule as it is but add “...and have the Fear special rule”.
I think this is the only daemon unit without an invulnerable save.
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I don't think so. Their codex entry says that for Soulgrinders, Daemon simply means they are immune to shaken and stunned, and deploy like other Daemons. The FAQ still says this:
Page 45 – Soul Grinders.
Leave the text in brackets for the Daemon special rule as it is but add “...and have the Fear special rule”.
I think this is the only daemon unit without an invulnerable save.
Yes thats to replace the text in codex for the Grinder.
However in addition to that everything in the codex has fear and a 5+ invul
"If you want a hobby that doesn't cost anything go catch butterflies." swordbrotherjim
I don't think so. Their codex entry says that for Soulgrinders, Daemon simply means they are immune to shaken and stunned, and deploy like other Daemons. The FAQ still says this:
Page 45 – Soul Grinders.
Leave the text in brackets for the Daemon special rule as it is but add “...and have the Fear special rule”.
I think this is the only daemon unit without an invulnerable save.
Yes thats to replace the text in codex for the Grinder.
However in addition to that everything in the codex has fear and a 5+ invul
I agree with the above, as the newest entry in 1.2 says that all units with the daemon special rule get fear and a 5++.
I don't think so. Their codex entry says that for Soulgrinders, Daemon simply means they are immune to shaken and stunned, and deploy like other Daemons. The FAQ still says this:
Page 45 – Soul Grinders.
Leave the text in brackets for the Daemon special rule as it is but add “...and have the Fear special rule”.
I think this is the only daemon unit without an invulnerable save.
Yes thats to replace the text in codex for the Grinder.
However in addition to that everything in the codex has fear and a 5+ invul
I play Daemons. I own a Soulgrinder. I would love for it to have a 5++. But this is a classic example of a general vs specific rule. The general rule gives all Daemons a 5++, the specific rule for Soulgrinders limits the Daemon benefits to: immunity to shaken / stunned, deploys like other Daemons, and causes fear.
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I do not believe general and specific matter when both rules are taken from the same source. That like saying the rulebook is contradicting itself. IN the FAQ it stats in the errata that the soulgrinder's rule is changed to include fear, that was in the 1.1 version. Now in the 1.2 version the FAQ section later on says that every model in codex daemons and the white dwarf update that has the daemon special rule uses the daemon codex special rule and gets fear + a 5++ save.
I don't think so. Their codex entry says that for Soulgrinders, Daemon simply means they are immune to shaken and stunned, and deploy like other Daemons. The FAQ still says this:
Page 45 – Soul Grinders.
Leave the text in brackets for the Daemon special rule as it is but add “...and have the Fear special rule”.
I think this is the only daemon unit without an invulnerable save.
Yes thats to replace the text in codex for the Grinder.
However in addition to that everything in the codex has fear and a 5+ invul
I play Daemons. I own a Soulgrinder. I would love for it to have a 5++. But this is a classic example of a general vs specific rule. The general rule gives all Daemons a 5++, the specific rule for Soulgrinders limits the Daemon benefits to: immunity to shaken / stunned, deploys like other Daemons, and causes fear.
CSM daemon engines profit from the 5+ daemon rule save why wouldn't soul gridner too, he is for sure more "daemonic" than CSM ones
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/31 10:18:16
If your saying that the demon codex over rules the brb then the flamers and screamers technically have to save. The deamon book states that their saves are invulnerable but the update has them listed as -.
If you want eternal warrior then you lose any save...
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Icelord wrote: If your saying that the demon codex over rules the brb then the flamers and screamers technically have to save. The deamon book states that their saves are invulnerable but the update has them listed as -.
If you want eternal warrior then you lose any save...
Not true. All models in Codex: Chaos Daemons (including the White Dwarf update) that have the Daemon special rule have the Codex version of the Daemon special rule in addition to Fear and a 5+ Invulnerable save.
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Q: Do models chosen from Codex: Chaos Daemons and / or the White
Dwarf, August 2012, Codex: Chaos Daemons official update have the
Daemon special rule from the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, or do they
have the Daemon army special rule from Codex: Chaos Daemons?
(p27)
A: All models from Codex: Chaos Daemons and/or the White
Dwarf, August 2012, Codex: Daemons official update have the
Daemon army special rule listed in Codex: Chaos Daemons
with the addition of the Fear special rule from the Warhammer
40,000 rulebook and a 5+ invulnerable save.
also the reason why Grinders get an invul.
"If you want a hobby that doesn't cost anything go catch butterflies." swordbrotherjim
Finally. This puts to rest quite a few arguments on this point. It appears as if I was not playing wrong this entire time.
Great Job GW for staying on top of things
/sarcasm
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Pretre: Are repressors assault vehicles? If they are, I'm gonna need emergency pants.
n0t_u: No, but six can shoot out of it. Other than that it's a Rhino with a Heavy Flamer thrown on if I remember correctly.
Pretre: Thanks! I guess my pants are safe and clean after all.
Vindicare-Obsession wrote: Finally. This puts to rest quite a few arguments on this point. It appears as if I was not playing wrong this entire time.
Great Job GW for staying on top of things
/sarcasm
Well all sarcasm aside the updates didn't come out too too long ago. They had already faq'd most things in them. They're doing a much better job in the past and I for one am appreciative in their attempts
"If you want a hobby that doesn't cost anything go catch butterflies." swordbrotherjim
Did you even read the thread? The FAQ entry has been posted at the top of the thread
Not sure what it would mean for a Soul Grinder though as the codex states: "Daemon (for Soul Grinders this rule simply means they deploy like all other Daemons, and are immune to the 'Shaken' and 'Stunned' damage results)".
The way I see it they only get certain perks from the Daemon rule (needing to deploy via Daemonic Assault and that they ignore shaken and stunned results. Imho that would mean they don't get the 5+ inv
As I said earlier the clarification in the FAQ 1.2 for Daemons says all units with the daemon special rule in codex daemons and the WD supplement use the codex daemon daemon special rule, with the addition of fear AND a 5++. It makes no distinction not to include the Soul Grinder.
The bracketed part in the soul grinders entry says though that do not get the entire rule. It specifically states which parts of the rule count for the soul grinder, an inv save not being one of them. Probably not what was intended but that's the way I'm reading it
Corrected, but that is an older entry which was in 1.1 and is in conflict with the newer entry which stats that all units, which would include the Soulgrinder, have it. The reason I feel that the Soulgrinder entree wasn't change/remove was them simply just editing 1.1 for 1.2 much like how in Fantasy a Steam Tank was immune to Pit of Shades because they kept it from the previous FAQ even after it lost its invulnerability.
Robbietobbie wrote: The bracketed part in the soul grinders entry says though that do not get the entire rule. It specifically states which parts of the rule count for the soul grinder, an inv save not being one of them. Probably not what was intended but that's the way I'm reading it
Initially I would have agreed with you, but the way the FAQ is worded it looks like there are two statements: one telling us to use the Daemon rule from the Daemon Codex, and the other telling us that all units in the Codex get Fear and a 5++.
I think the question is if the 'with the addition of ...' part is modifying the Daemon rule to include Fear and a 5++, or if it's just adding Fear and a 5++ to every unit. If the former, the Soulgrinder gets no invulnerable save, if the latter, it does.
My earlier opinion was that the Soulgrinder didn't get the 5++, but after some more reading of the FAQ, I'm not sure.
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Rereading the faq leads m to change my mind. The faq doesn't update the codex' daemon rule, instead it states all models have the daemon rule AND a 5+ inv and fear. Thus the soul grinder would get the 5+, though not because the codex entry has the daemon special rule (with or without limitations, as its irrelevant at this point)
After reading it again I'm gonna swing around and agree that soul grinders get the 5++. It does say all models from codex etc and not all models with the daemon special rule. Nice buff for grinders!
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