Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Had a game night versus a friend last night. I'll admit that games get heated and stuffes goes to hell sometimes. I'm trying not to be TFG, however I don't think I'm the one to be blamed. Here comes the situation.

SW vs Necrons - Hammer and Anvil. 1500 Necrons first turn he throws his assault barge (The one with the overlord in it) right in the middle of the field, it would get its jink save and because it was night time, things over 24 would give it a 3+ Or so. Fire an entire pack of longfangs at it. Miss. Can't hit 13 armor. Another group of long fangs, miss. 2 Meltas, can't pen. Finally a combi-melta from a WG pens and explodes it on a 4 + Ap 1 . He then misses his cover save and here come the "Wow this is fething stupid how did that not save 3+" And i'm sitting there after having just shot 400+ Points of models at a 85 point one and he's wondering why it isn't better. Nope.jpg

But here comes the big guns. JOTWW his overlord and he fails on a 3+ initiative test. He does. Calls it OP whatever yeah its strong deal with it.

Turn 2 Rolls around, he drops two nightscythes full of deathmarks+Crypteks with Strength 8 Ap 1 Flamers and whipes out my entire squad of TWC + A WolfLord. About 600 Points. JUST in the shooting phase. This is with storm shields and 2+ Up runic armors. They proceeded to die to the deathmarks. Etc.

I'm sitting there having lost all of these models. About 600 points worth and I say.."Wow..What the Fu@# just happend" And he convinces me that I'm whining about stupid gak and SW are OP as balls anyway.

I proceeded to Jaws every other HQ he had.

How am I supposed to not care that 1/3 of my army, Playing at 1500 had just been whiped by one fell swoop by deathmarks from Nightscythes... However when he loses an 100 point HQ I'M The OP one.

Anyone else have this happen to them? I'm trying not to be an assclown for whining, but when you kill a deathball of 600 points with about 200~ It's really like..Demoralizing..? And then being called a whiner. AND THEN he whines himself. I don't know what to do. How do I stop being TFG. I want to have fun.

Are you the TFG or the other guy?

I'm not sure.

At any rate, the loss of 600 points is entirely your fault - a deathstar will draw fire. The game contains Ap 1 and 2 weapons, so you should have some for of invuln saves in there. Of the two of you, you were much more of a TFG - you took a 600 point TWC deathstar and spammed JotWW shamelessly. It's natural to complain a little at the loss of a unit, which your opponent did, and you did, which is fine. It's not okay to complain because your opponent had a hard counter to a certain type of unit (TEQ) and used it on your TEQ.

 Rabtorian wrote:
I'm not sure.

At any rate, the loss of 600 points is entirely your fault - a deathstar will draw fire. The game contains Ap 1 and 2 weapons, so you should have some for of invuln saves in there. Of the two of you, you were much more of a TFG - you took a 600 point TWC deathstar and spammed JotWW shamelessly. It's natural to complain a little at the loss of a unit, which your opponent did, and you did, which is fine. It's not okay to complain because your opponent had a hard counter to a certain type of unit (TEQ) and used it on your TEQ.

He did have an invuln save in the unit, he said it was with runic armor and storm shields, thats 2+/3++ if I remember correctly... but other than that, I agree on the fact that both were whining, possibly OP a little more...

 Rabtorian wrote:
Of the two of you, you were much more of a TFG - you took a 600 point TWC deathstar and spammed JotWW shamelessly.

Oh, the irony. Remember kids, you're a bad person if you use an army somebody thinks is too good. Winning is for jerks!

Isn't this the same person who proposed the Deny the Switch rule, the negate Necron special abilities on a 4+? Guess we now know why...

 Chumbalaya wrote:

Oh, the irony. Remember kids, you're a bad person if you use an army somebody thinks is too good. Winning is for jerks!

Kind of. Using an amazingly powerful army you've figured out yourself is fine, it is your own work. Using an amazingly powerful army list you found online is not. Part of the game is comming up with your own playstyle and using it. When you win with something you've crafted yourself, it is fun. When you remove that part of the game and use someone else's work (as in net-listing), not so much. It is akin to claiming you are a good programmer because you can download a game or that your a mechanic because you drive a vehicle. Yes, you can modify a netlist to make it your own; but, a knockoff is a knockoff.

Back on topic:

Monasou wrote: . . .whatever yeah its strong deal with it

Both of you are TFG to an extent. You are whining because he had used an OP tactic to kill 1/3 of your infantry when you only killed his HQ. He is whining because you outright killed his HQ using an OP tactic. Also, your comment as quoted above flags you as TFG as well. Sorry, but most power gamers are simply TFG. In this instance, the pot calls the kettle black.

Hanith wrote:
Kind of. Using an amazingly powerful army you've figured out yourself is fine, it is your own work. Using an amazingly powerful army list you found online is not. Part of the game is comming up with your own playstyle and using it. When you win with something you've crafted yourself, it is fun. When you remove that part of the game and use someone else's work (as in net-listing), not so much. It is akin to claiming you are a good programmer because you can download a game or that your a mechanic because you drive a vehicle. Yes, you can modify a netlist to make it your own; but, a knockoff is a knockoff.

"I want to have fun."

This is a game. If you are playing a game and you are not having fun, you are doing it wrong.

If you can't have fun when playing a particular game, then stop playing that game.

Hanith wrote:Kind of. Using an amazingly powerful army you've figured out yourself is fine, it is your own work. Using an amazingly powerful army list you found online is not. Part of the game is comming up with your own playstyle and using it. When you win with something you've crafted yourself, it is fun. When you remove that part of the game and use someone else's work (as in net-listing), not so much. It is akin to claiming you are a good programmer because you can download a game or that your a mechanic because you drive a vehicle. Yes, you can modify a netlist to make it your own; but, a knockoff is a knockoff.

What if the amazingly powerful army list that I came up with by myself happens to be the same amazingly powerful army list that is floating around the Internet? People do occasionally come to the same conclusions.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Isn't this the same person who proposed the Deny the Switch rule, the negate Necron special abilities on a 4+? Guess we now know why...

Why did you have to make me search for that? I lolled.

So, you've posted a story about yourself being a TFG?

.......really?

 blood reaper wrote:
So, you've posted a story about yourself being a TFG?

.......really?

The first step is acceptance.

 Eldarain wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
So, you've posted a story about yourself being a TFG?

.......really?

The first step is acceptance.

Next it will be denial.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
So, you've posted a story about yourself being a TFG?

.......really?

The first step is acceptance.

Next it will be denial.

Followed by ritual suicide by ingesting exploding tennis balls.

 Chumbalaya wrote:

Oh, the irony. Remember kids, you're a bad person if you use an army somebody thinks is too good. Winning is for jerks!

Nah. We could all use armies that are reeeaallly strong - that's easy - all it takes is a wallet and a web connection. No skill whatsoever. Problem is, if everyone did it, then the game becomes a boring hash through endless identical top tier army lists and people have to ditch any army (even ones they like) for the 'strongest build' every time a new update comes out.

It's not bad to take a strong army, if that's the sort of game you agree to play. But if you play a friendly game with a friend who chooses to bring a friendly list, and then you show up with the strongest tournament list in the game, that's different

Monasou wrote: . . .whatever yeah its strong deal with it

As above - 'dealing with it' involves everyone buying the strongest lists in the game. Which would be boring.

I don't think either of you were being TFG. But it all depends on the level of whining.

I'd get annoyed with playing someone who actually started whining over a game of toy soldiers. Certainly if they'd brought one of the strongest lists in the game (Long Fangs, JOTWW, TWC) and then had the cheek to whine when the dice didn't go their way. It's a dice game. It doesn't matter. Even if you're losing horribly, be civil and act like an adult. Anything else is unsportsmanly, and that really is TFG...

I don't see how any of what you said there makes either of you TFG.

Whining and disappointment are part of the game. It can be heartbreaking to see a unit die without it having done a shred of what you hoped it would. It doesnt matter how many points it costs. No one will be happy about losing their Hq, 600 points deathstar or newly painted unit (as it tends to happen to me all the time).

Being disappointed is completely normal, but you should still be a good sport about it. If that person is indeed your friend, you both need to reach an understanding and agree this will happen and be ok with the other person ranting during the game. You'll eventually make fun of it.

As for sniping all his characters with JOTWW, while I don't play Space Wolves myself, isnt that the intent of the power to begin with? While this doesnt make the game very casual and more competitive, it's still a valid tactic as far as I am aware and there's nothing wrong with using tools at your disposal to win. It will only make you TFG if you start gloating about it.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Nah. We could all use armies that are reeeaallly strong - that's easy - all it takes is a wallet and a web connection. No skill whatsoever. Problem is, if everyone did it, then the game becomes a boring hash through endless identical top tier army lists and people have to ditch any army (even ones they like) for the 'strongest build' every time a new update comes out.

It's not bad to take a strong army, if that's the sort of game you agree to play. But if you play a friendly game with a friend who chooses to bring a friendly list, and then you show up with the strongest tournament list in the game, that's different

A tangent, but this is exactly why I prefer balanced games. That way, my acceptability as a player is judged on my actual conduct, rather than my army meeting some hazy standard of "too good".

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Nah. We could all use armies that are reeeaallly strong - that's easy - all it takes is a wallet and a web connection. No skill whatsoever. Problem is, if everyone did it, then the game becomes a boring hash through endless identical top tier army lists and people have to ditch any army (even ones they like) for the 'strongest build' every time a new update comes out.

Spoken like somebody who's never been to a tourney. I never got where this ridiculous notion comes from, I imagine from folks making excuses for themselves. If 40k really were all about netlisting, then the same people wouldn't be winning or placing highly in all these national events. Good players use what fits their playstyle, not what the inernet says is good, which is why those feared netlists everybody cries about aren't on the top tables.

As for my TFG stories, it's always the "holier than thou" casual gaming mafia that drive me up a wall. Them or the folks who complain incessantly and love calling everything under the sun "gay" like some 12 year old on Xbox Live.

 Chumbalaya wrote:

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Nah. We could all use armies that are reeeaallly strong - that's easy - all it takes is a wallet and a web connection. No skill whatsoever. Problem is, if everyone did it, then the game becomes a boring hash through endless identical top tier army lists and people have to ditch any army (even ones they like) for the 'strongest build' every time a new update comes out.

Spoken like somebody who's never been to a tourney. I never got where this ridiculous notion comes from, I imagine from folks making excuses for themselves. If 40k really were all about netlisting, then the same people wouldn't be winning or placing highly in all these national events. Good players use what fits their playstyle, not what the internet says is good, which is why those feared netlists everybody cries about aren't on the top tables.

As for my TFG stories, it's always the "holier than thou" casual gaming mafia that drive me up a wall. Them or the folks who complain incessantly and love calling everything under the sun "gay" like some 12 year old on Xbox Live.

I agree with Ian me, at the end of the day, wargaming isn't very complicated.. not even remotely. There are only 5 or 6 actions that a model/unit can perform, its turn based.. you use some dice.. I its a piece of piss... hence kids can grasp all of the mechanics.

I haven't got the neck to take a power list, because I'd feel like an absolute bellend being so desperate to win a tabletop game, so I don't play in tourneys.

I played in one once, took a nice fluffy list, as did many others, and saw the guy who won easily walk off with first place with a "counts as Space Wolves" that were actually painted as sisters of battle. Seriously.. the neck on that bloke. This was a few years ago, when SW was recently out and was bad-ass because you he could take 17 ML at 1000 points and vanilla could manage about 7.

Really.. no skill there, if we swapped armies, I would crush him utterly, not even any shadow of a doubt. Its simple math, not magical skill and ability. You don't pick your models up and maneuver them skillfully ala an online game of Starcraft 2.

The only people who had a decent game of it, also had SW or power lists! How can skill be a question when the only people that came close alsohad power lists? At the end of the day, its 75% what list you take and 25% dice rolls. But If I take a power list like Leaf Blower guard with an insane amount of shooting, and you take a fluffy list, you lose. I don't care if you think you are the Genghis Khan of your local Games Workshop.

Personally, I think that dweebs like to try and pretend that being good at tabletop gaming takes loads of skill and loads of intellect and loads of effort because they think it makes them look good. It really doesn't, there aren't that many units, there aren't that many rules, there aren't that many different ways of doing things, there aren't that many books to read.

Being a good boxer takes effort, because you need to train for a thousand hours before your fight. Wargaming? You need an IQ higher than 105, an internet connection, and the brass neck to be able to rock up with some Ultramarines and go "Oh actually these are all -insert whatever is the strongest at the moment-"

Chumbalaya wrote:[ Them or the folks who complain incessantly and love calling everything under the sun "gay" like some 12 year old on Xbox Live.

that would be me then

mattyrm wrote:

I agree with Ian me, at the end of the day, wargaming isn't very complicated.. not even remotely. There are only 5 or 6 actions that a model/unit can perform, its turn based.. you use some dice.. I its a piece of piss... hence kids can grasp all of the mechanics.

I haven't got the neck to take a power list, because I'd feel like an absolute bellend being so desperate to win a tabletop game, so I don't play in tourneys.

I played in one once, took a nice fluffy list, as did many others, and saw the guy who won easily walk off with first place with a "counts as Space Wolves" that were actually painted as sisters of battle. Seriously.. the neck on that bloke. This was a few years ago, when SW was recently out and was bad-ass because you he could take 17 ML at 1000 points and vanilla could manage about 7.

Really.. no skill there, if we swapped armies, I would crush him utterly, not even any shadow of a doubt. Its simple math, not magical skill and ability. You don't pick your models up and maneuver them skillfully ala an online game of Starcraft 2.

The only people who had a decent game of it, also had SW or power lists! How can skill be a question when the only people that came close alsohad power lists? At the end of the day, its 75% what list you take and 25% dice rolls. But If I take a power list like Leaf Blower guard with an insane amount of shooting, and you take a fluffy list, you lose. I don't care if you think you are the Genghis Khan of your local Games Workshop.

Personally, I think that dweebs like to try and pretend that being good at tabletop gaming takes loads of skill and loads of intellect and loads of effort because they think it makes them look good. It really doesn't, there aren't that many units, there aren't that many rules, there aren't that many different ways of doing things, there aren't that many books to read.

Being a good boxer takes effort, because you need to train for a thousand hours before your fight. Wargaming? You need an IQ higher than 105, an internet connection, and the brass neck to be able to rock up with some Ultramarines and go "Oh actually these are all -insert whatever is the strongest at the moment-"

That was that tournament at warhammer world a few years back. Didn't that guy win best painted army too?

I disagree with your second to last paragraph though. If that's the case, then you wouldn't have lost and got hammered in the bar instead

 mercer wrote:

I disagree with your second to last paragraph though. If that's the case, then you wouldn't have lost and got hammered in the bar instead

It was a pound a pint! I would have got hammered at the bar if the terrain on all the tables was made of tits and naked hooters girls were rolling my dice for me!

@mattyrm
Have you really been banned from OT?

Bloody hell, OP, it's not like you were bringing your soft list, is it? Your power list lost out to his power list, so? You want to play casual, find casual players, build casual lists. You want to play tourney style, bringing optimised lists to every fight, expect your opponent to play the same way. Ask yourself - would you feel bad if the tables were turned?

 mattyrm wrote:
I agree with Ian me, at the end of the day, wargaming isn't very complicated.. not even remotely. There are only 5 or 6 actions that a model/unit can perform, its turn based.. you use some dice.. I its a piece of piss... hence kids can grasp all of the mechanics.

I haven't got the neck to take a power list, because I'd feel like an absolute bellend being so desperate to win a tabletop game, so I don't play in tourneys.

I played in one once, took a nice fluffy list, as did many others, and saw the guy who won easily walk off with first place with a "counts as Space Wolves" that were actually painted as sisters of battle. Seriously.. the neck on that bloke. This was a few years ago, when SW was recently out and was bad-ass because you he could take 17 ML at 1000 points and vanilla could manage about 7.

Really.. no skill there, if we swapped armies, I would crush him utterly, not even any shadow of a doubt. Its simple math, not magical skill and ability. You don't pick your models up and maneuver them skillfully ala an online game of Starcraft 2.

The only people who had a decent game of it, also had SW or power lists! How can skill be a question when the only people that came close alsohad power lists? At the end of the day, its 75% what list you take and 25% dice rolls. But If I take a power list like Leaf Blower guard with an insane amount of shooting, and you take a fluffy list, you lose. I don't care if you think you are the Genghis Khan of your local Games Workshop.

Personally, I think that dweebs like to try and pretend that being good at tabletop gaming takes loads of skill and loads of intellect and loads of effort because they think it makes them look good. It really doesn't, there aren't that many units, there aren't that many rules, there aren't that many different ways of doing things, there aren't that many books to read.

Being a good boxer takes effort, because you need to train for a thousand hours before your fight. Wargaming? You need an IQ higher than 105, an internet connection, and the brass neck to be able to rock up with some Ultramarines and go "Oh actually these are all -insert whatever is the strongest at the moment-"

I've never been happier to not live in the UK.

 Chumbalaya wrote:



I've never been happier to not live in the UK.

Yeah, unfortunately mattyrm occupies every square inch of the UK. It is literally impossible to move without conforming to his opinions.

Or to put it in your terms:

 htj wrote:

 Chumbalaya wrote:



I've never been happier to not live in the UK.

Yeah, unfortunately mattyrm occupies every square inch of the UK. It is literally impossible to move without conforming to his opinions.

Or to put it in your terms:

Yeah I really don't get that post either!

I mean, granted Im an arsehole... but surely I could come at least somewhere in between Fred West and The Rev'd Canon Dr John Sentamu and still make the nation habitable?

So someone brings a 600 point TWC unit to a 1500 point game and cries Cheese when it gets pasted? What did the OP think was going to happen? That the other guy was going to let him get them near?

I'd like to see the rest of the list. My bet is 2 5 Man Gray Hunter squads and 3 Longfang squads with 5 MLs each.

 Chumbalaya wrote:

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Nah. We could all use armies that are reeeaallly strong - that's easy - all it takes is a wallet and a web connection. No skill whatsoever. Problem is, if everyone did it, then the game becomes a boring hash through endless identical top tier army lists and people have to ditch any army (even ones they like) for the 'strongest build' every time a new update comes out.

Spoken like somebody who's never been to a tourney. I never got where this ridiculous notion comes from, I imagine from folks making excuses for themselves. If 40k really were all about netlisting, then the same people wouldn't be winning or placing highly in all these national events. Good players use what fits their playstyle, not what the inernet says is good, which is why those feared netlists everybody cries about aren't on the top tables.

As for my TFG stories, it's always the "holier than thou" casual gaming mafia that drive me up a wall. Them or the folks who complain incessantly and love calling everything under the sun "gay" like some 12 year old on Xbox Live.

Oh I've played tournaments on your side of the pond AND mine. I enjoy tournaments, I go to them regularly. I even met the legendary mattyrm at one, once... When I go to them I'll make sure I bring a strong list, because that's to be expected. I can say that there is practically no difference on either side of the pond - most of the people there know they won't win, but are there for fun and to get a weekend away playing with their toy soliders. Very few are there for 'the competition'.

Still, at these events I WILL mostly see the same lists. Lots of GK. Lots of SW. They don't win all the time, but they place highly - more highly than other codexes. So a lot of armies hardly exist at tournaments. This is a bad thing, but it's in the nature of tournaments.

The point is that IN A FRIENDLY GAME, when you have the choice of which 'tier' to play at, you don't always have to take your most powerful list. And if you don't, you make the game more inclusive for everyone, and increase variety. This is a good thing. Turning up with a top tier list when you know your opponent is bringing his fluffy list is acting like a jerk.

The best part of this thread is the troll-like manner of the OP. Most of his discussions start out like this one, and then we never hear from him. It as if he wants to generate buzz about non-issues...

 Chumbalaya wrote:



I've never been happier to not live in the UK.

Yeah we're all quite pleased about it too.

The fact is wargaming isn't a professional sport, you can't earn a living at it, why get so obsessed with competing?