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Can i use the Tzeentch Boon of Mutation power, on a character with in 6" and then have him Look out sir the s4 hit and then let the character roll on the Table?


The Character Survived.
He has taken a s4 HIT.

Look out Sir is for wounds, not hits. Maybe I do not understand what you are asking, clarify please.

To my knowledge, every other instance of anything like this (perils of the warp etc) cannot be Look Out Sired, as they are not wounds caused by shooting, nor are they wounds caused by close combat.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Look out Sir is for wounds, not hits. Maybe I do not understand what you are asking, clarify please.

So if the hit causes a wound can he LoS it away?

Think thats what's being ask. Im still terrible with LoS

He can use Look out Sir on any allocated wound IIRC.

Boon of Mutation from Chaos Demons does not cause a wound, therefore no LOS is allowed. It causes a toughness test.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Boon of Mutation from the Chaos Space Marines, is a blessing, so friendly troops only. As far as the hit goes, I would say no. The entire effect of the power would be LOS'd and it cannot be used on any non character, so what is the point ?

It says "that character takes a..." which I would count like Perils or Gets Hot where it says a model suffers and therefore there is no allocation.

Fragile wrote:
Boon of Mutation from Chaos Demons does not cause a wound, therefore no LOS is allowed. It causes a toughness test.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Boon of Mutation from the Chaos Space Marines, is a blessing, so friendly troops only. As far as the hit goes, I would say no. The entire effect of the power would be LOS'd and it cannot be used on any non character, so what is the point ?

IIRC you LOS wounds not hits, so it would still work as intended.

Are LOS's disallowed by faq or BGB for perils, etc?

With Perils the wound is not allocated, so no Look out Sir.

As "The Psyker immediately suffers 1 Wound" P.67

You LOS allocated wounds, not just any wound.

If a specific model takes a hit/wound, that's not allocated.

Thanks for clarifying, slowly learning LOS.

"when a wound is allocated to one of my characters, and there is another model from the same unit within 6", he's allowed a look out sir attempt."

As soon as he takes the s4 hit, the wound is allocated to him. So Surely he can then look out sir it to another guy?

It'd represent him making a sacrafice to the dark gods !

 Bloodhorror wrote:
"when a wound is allocated to one of my characters, and there is another model from the same unit within 6", he's allowed a look out sir attempt."

As soon as he takes the s4 hit, the wound is allocated to him. So Surely he can then look out sir it to another guy?

It'd represent him making a sacrafice to the dark gods !

No, there is no allocation - he just takes it.

I am pretty sure there is allocation here. A str 4 hit followed by a roll to wound, the wound is then allocated if it is not allocated no damage is done.

This is completely different to perils whereby the casters suffers a wound, no hits and thus no wound allocation, is involved.

With a hit you must resolve it through the normal wounding process which involves allocation, there is no other way to deal with a hit in the rules.

Except you don't allocate the Wound. A specific model takes the hit, therefore the specific model takes the Wound (if it Wounds).

The hit is indeed allocated to that model. Where is the rule that says to skip the allocation step when a specific model is hit?

So Perils of the Warp, Dangerous Terrain and Gets Hot! all allocate Wounds to a model? No which is why they cannot be LOS!'d. The only difference here is the model takes a hit which may or may not generate a Wound.

Those example all cause the model to suffer a wound, skipping allocation. They are completely different.

The difference is that a hit of a given strength uses the normal wounding process as there is no other option in the rules, this includes allocation.

I mentioned that perils was a false equivalence in my first post and why.

But if you look out sir he dosent get to roll on the boon table as he never survived the hit someone else did and um they can get a boon roll.

Its only a hit, roll to wound if not wounded he survives, if wounded and saves he survives if you los someone else is hit and nullifies the spell effect. It has to be a character and hes now not being even wounded.

if he look out sirs it, and passes that roll. He has Survived it.

 Bloodhorror wrote:
if he look out sirs it, and passes that roll. He has Survived it.

Except he can not use Look out Sir, as the wound is never allocated.

Its automatically allocated to him though.

Even if this is true:

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Its automatically allocated to him though.

And you could LOS! it, then he did not survive the hit. In order to survive the hit he has to suffer the hit.

Did he die from it?
No

Therefore he has Survived it.

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Its automatically allocated to him though.

No, it's not allocated. Allocation would mean that the wound pool is populated, etc.

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Did he die from it?
No

Therefore he has Survived it.

In that case, every character has survived that hit and gets the benefit to roll on the table. Is that what you are saying?

The arguments here against why this works are horrible.

Simply posting that the wound was never allocated with no support over and over again does not prove that you are correct. Cite rules or page numbers in the rule book to prove your point.

I don't see any guidelines by which a model can suffer a wound from a hit without the wound being allocated to it. The allocation is part of the rolling to wound process, and is not dependent on the wound pool or anything else.

Happy - You are correct, technically every character has survived the hit. But the rule does not say that for each character that survives the hit, they get to roll on the table. It only says that the character who took the hit gets to roll.

Look out sir says he still takes the hit, the wound is just resolved against a different model. For example, when the assassin uses shield breaker on a character and he LOS the hit to someone else, he still loses his invulnerable for the rest of the game because the rule for shield breaker says the model hit loses his invuln, not the model it is resolved against.

staticchange wrote:
Simply posting that the wound was never allocated with no support over and over again does not prove that you are correct. Cite rules or page numbers in the rule book to prove your point.

Actually to be able to use Look Out, Sir! you have to prove the wound was allocated. Shooting attacks and CC attacks allocate, but there's nothing the Boon of Mutation rule that says it's allocated.
Are Get's Hot wounds allocated? According to you, yes.
Are Perils wounds allocated? According to you, yes.

And the FAQ proves you wrong.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: Can a character make a Look out, Sir attempt to pass a Wound
from an overheating Gets Hot weapon onto another member of his
squad? (p16)
A: No.

I don't see any guidelines by which a model can suffer a wound from a hit without the wound being allocated to it. The allocation is part of the rolling to wound process, and is not dependent on the wound pool or anything else.

Actually allocation is only ever mentioned with the wound pool in context. Cite pages to support your assertion. Remember that you have no permission to allocate without rules support.

Rigeld2 - sorry I was editing my reply when you posted, I changed it back and will post it here instead.

I should have said the allocation is not specifically dependent on the wound pool or anything else, but is instead part of the whole process and cannot be skipped.

I would argue that the process here is similar to directed shots. The following comes from the shooting section of the rule book on pages 13-15. Automatic hit -> roll to wound -> if successful, 1 wound in the wound pool -> allocate wounds (in this case it must be allocated to a specific model -> LOS if possible -> model suffers a wound -> make saves and remove casualties.

Gets hot, perils, and dangerous terrain tests do not "hit" models and are never allocated, because the rules all state that you skip directly to the part where the model suffers a wound.

Edit:
Again, there is no process in the rule book that outlines any procedure by which a hit can be translated to a wound except those found in the assault and shooting sections of the rule books. As you say, we have no permission to do ANYTHING without rules support, so we certainly cannot resolve a hit with no guidelines.
Edited again to add page numbers.

staticchange just said everything I was going to. So, +1 to that post.

Please stop trying to equate this situation to gets hot, perils and such we have now both explained why those situations are not equivalent to this one.