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I hope orks get a new codex soon, I don't play them but every time I see ork models it cheers me up. I don't know why.

Wrong thread...

Rumours be looking great, and really fluffy too, which is the real surprising thing, so I got my bag of salt with me.

All this stuff looks great, but I'd expect a downside too, specifically involving Lootas. Lootas are in most lists, which means they're selling, which means GW can reign them back now for another units not selling as well.

The change to Big Choppas certainly looks good as the only reason I ever took them was for wound allocating on Nob Squads.

 thesilverback wrote:
I hope these are close to being true would really add to ork colorfulness. Bring the Choppas Back.

+1
More random stuff, ladz blowing up, oh and some mad boyz too!

Neat. I think it's a stretch for all orks to have FNP, but it would be interesting.

 Samus_aran115 wrote:
Neat. I think it's a stretch for all orks to have FNP, but it would be interesting.

I think it's pretty fluffy, considering Orks are always touted as being as 'ard as nails. And I dont think a 6+ FnP is particularly game-breaking for them. They rarely get their t-shirt saves as is.

Except Space Marines are also know for being very hard to kill, and that toughness is represented by both of them having T4. From a mechanic point of view, I'm not sure it's necessary

True enough. Which is why Im taking these rumours (as nice as they are) with a grain of salt.

Orks need better charging rules as they rely heavily upon that when their volume of fire fails them.

I think it's always a good idea to never assume, no matter how much you'd want to, that any rumours are solid - even if it fits really, really well to the race and/or what you want

Orks generally seem one of the more popular factions - they're one of the "big four" locally at least, in regards to product placement in the hobby stores - so it wouldn't be unheard of for them to be pushed forward a bit. However, even as an Ork player, I feel that the other older 4th edition codices are in more urgent need of an update. Considering we're getting rumours for Dark Angels, Eldar, and Tau, and the Daemons got a mini update, with another mini update on the way, I don't think it's unrealistic for some Ork rumours to start seeping through the cracks - true or not.

I'd love a new edition, but more for the new toys, rather than any major perception that they need it, so I'll be content to let the others catch up while I expand my collection into other armies.

To jump back to wishlisting, I'd love to see an Ork flyer variant that fires rokkits - a proppa' tankbusta jet. D6 rokkits fired every turn! Or one with snazzy Mek gubbin's on it.

Which leads me to get very excited over all the new Big Mek devices we may see

Also, ever since the Blood and Thunder 40k comic, I've wanted an upgrade for Nobs that mounted a Big Shoota turret over his shoulders, fired by a gretchin lacky.

6+ FnP for every Ork is silly. It's just more dice for the sake of more dice. 6th edition's systems are already bloated and convoluted as it is (especially wound allocation and resolution), I don't think that adding an extra save to make for every unit in an army known for regularly fielding 100-150 models in a game is a good idea at all. Especially since you'll have to make each save individually in units containing a character.

Everything else looks okay, I guess. Not enough to get me interested in actually playing 40k again, but it certainly doesn't look terrible

 Fafnir wrote:
6+ FnP for every Ork is silly. It's just more dice for the sake of more dice. 6th edition's systems are already bloated and convoluted as it is (especially wound allocation and resolution), I don't think that adding an extra save to make for every unit in an army known for regularly fielding 100-150 models in a game is a good idea at all. Especially since you'll have to make each save individually in units containing a character.

Speed rolling, yo. Batch rolls for the models in front of the character until all are dead. Then char rolls. Then next batch rolls. It takes a bit of getting used to, but it only gets somewhat bogged when you get to Look Out Sir. It's really not much of an issue for Orks, considering the general homogeneous of their units. You will rarely have more than two characters in a unit, and mostly only in a single unit within an army. As such, you'll have a single character most of the time, and batch rolling the rest of the time.

Ronin wrote:

 Samus_aran115 wrote:
Neat. I think it's a stretch for all orks to have FNP, but it would be interesting.

I think it's pretty fluffy, considering Orks are always touted as being as 'ard as nails. And I dont think a 6+ FnP is particularly game-breaking for them. They rarely get their t-shirt saves as is.

Agreed, if somehow an entire 30boy mob was wiped out but still got their FNP saves, youd only save roughly 3-4 boyz on average. Definitely not game breaking

Luke_Prowler wrote:Except Space Marines are also know for being very hard to kill, and that toughness is represented by both of them having T4. From a mechanic point of view, I'm not sure it's necessary

Except according to fluff, Orks can have their heads removed and survive for a period of time like that until its transplanted. Ive never heard of a SpaceMarine being able to do that

Rumours of new big models with new gameplay mechanics make me think of the chaos zords which in turn alienates me even more from 40K

One unit in an army can ruin the whole force for me and they're all gradually getting their new, wacky toys

These rumors, though good, will be taken with a sprinkle of salt! We're still a ways off before our respective Waaaghs get an upgrade!

FNP on the Waaagh turn makes sence, and the Big Choppas do need a better edge!

 Skarshak wrote:

FNP on the Waaagh turn makes sence

was thinking the same thing. But good thing these are just rumours we still have are a year out for the new one.

Hope the big choppa rule comes true, I have a big choppa death star unit that is kinda used now for cannon fodder now these days I would love it if they gave back a little decapitation to my unit that would be awesome .

Also Teleportas... yes I want Tesla coils for my orks... run down beat-up Tesla coils... .

Kroot is right though, hoping any of these rumors are true is nothing more than a pipe dream. I think the only discussion of re-doing the ork book at this point is an offhanded remark from a designer or two saying they'd like to do it.

Tau and Eldar desperately need to be brought into the new edition. The armies still work in 6th, and can be quite powerful, but the books are based on so many old, out of date mechanics. Black templar are the worst off, as they've lost any sort of defining characteristic. They are worse in every single way to the other marine books at this point. Daemons are probably the most powerful old army at this point, but thats only because the WD update made screamers and flamers premier Tier 1 units that are insanely powerful in this edition (and gain benefits like Eternal Warrior, and Fearless, which are probably going away in the new book).

Orks are still fairly points appropriate. Orks mechanics aren't horribly off base. Orks are still a strong middle/high tier competitive army. A wave of the missing minis (meganobz, buggies, and copters) would be more than enough attention to our green friends for a while.

Besides, I'd hate to suffer the huge excitement build up of the Chaos book only to actually look at it and go "meh... why'd they do a new book again?" The more they wait to do the book, the better it will be. Gives the designers time to really think about what they want to do with this edition and how the armies will work.

While i would like to add some variance into my army, i must say my warboss would never like to drop his power klaw for one of those "fancy choopas".

Any other model in the army will not benefit so much from a weapon like that, as hitting with normal Initiative is not so great for orkz (initiative 3 is hitting last almost always).

And expect an increase in point cost if that rules come in.

So, i will keep polishing my PK's

Man those choppa rules look awesome. But damn, that FNP is amazing. I know it wont make much of a difference, but keeping ma boyz alive is what I like.

Orks don't need a 6+ FNP unless they are going to get a large price increase as well. +2 - 4 PPM :/

Power Mauls mixed with Power Lances seem silly. I can see Big Choppas getting the same treatment as Chain Axes.

Goresaw wrote:
Orks are still fairly points appropriate. Orks mechanics aren't horribly off base. Orks are still a strong middle/high tier competitive army.

Orks are not "fairly points appropriate", only Boyz, Lootas, Rolla wagons and the Warboss / Big Mek are.

Unfortunately, there are a dozen other units in our codex, and nearly all of them are too expensive or need to be reworked in some way. Sure, Orks can still win if you bring all the aforementioned units, but that doesn't mean the codex as a whole is good. When you have to play with the same 5-6 units every game, the game gets boring quickly.

I'm NOT saying they should get an update before Eldar or Tau (who truly need one), but people should get out of their heads that Orks are "fine" as they are.

PS : for those wondering why I didn't list Nobz / Meganobz, just look at their point-cost, then look at their Leadership value. No other "elite" unit in all 40k has such a crappy Leadership. When your 300pts unit gets pinned as easily as a bunch of Gretchins, you know there's something wrong...

Nym wrote:Orks are not "fairly points appropriate", only Boyz, Lootas, Rolla wagons and the Warboss / Big Mek are.

Don't forget Big Gunz, which, oddly, seem underpriced with the changes to artillery. 103 pts for 19 wounds of T7/3+, shooting 3 S5 Barrage blasts a turn...yeah, I'll take that. Then there's the Dakkajet, one of the most point-efficient Flyers in the game. Not to say Orks don't have a lot of uncompetitive options...but their Codex's age-to-usefulness ratio is off the charts when compared to similarly dated books.

Crazyterran wrote:
Orks don't need a 6+ FNP unless they are going to get a large price increase as well. +2 - 4 PPM :/

I'm curious - why do you think they'd need such a large cost increase?

 whigwam wrote:
Then there's the Dakkajet, one of the most point-efficient Flyers in the game.

I initially wrote a much longer post, pointing-out why the Dakkajet sucked point-wise, but removed it because I didn't want to sound like I was ranting, but here is a sum-up :

"Even our brand new flyer is broken point-wise. A Vendetta costs the same as a Dakkajet (ie : our cheapest plane, and arguably the only "good" one) but gets AV12 front and side, hover mode and transport capacity. A necron Nightscythe has AV11 all-around, a transport capacity of 15 models (who don't die when the plane is destroyed), can drop its cargo after moving 36", comes with a Heavy 4 TL Str7 gun that averages more hits than its initial number of shots, living metal, and a 30pts discount compared to the Dakkajet. To add insult to the injury, the Nightscythe is a dedicated transport !"

Don't get me wrong, I like the Dakkajet, but point-wise, it should be *way* cheaper.

Vendettas/Night Scythes/Dakkajets are all different animals. Each can outperform one another depending on the task at hand. For instance, the Dakkajet's better against light armor and infantry than the Night Scythe (and obviously much better against those targets than a Vendetta), even on a non-WAAAGH turn. On the WAAAGH, a Dakkajet will take out Scythes more reliably than a Vendetta and will murder infantry unlike any Flyer in the game (except maybe the Heldrake).

Anyway, we can disagree on the Dakkajet. I don't think it's the end-all, be-all of Flyers, but I think it can certainly hang with the big boys if you accept its limitations and play up its strengths.

Phydox wrote:
All this stuff looks great, but I'd expect a downside too, specifically involving Lootas. Lootas are in most lists, which means they're selling, which means GW can reign them back now for another units not selling as well.

Easiest way to nerf Lootas fairly would be to swap them with Flash gitz. Being in elite would make Flash gitz maybe viable, and being in HS would mean Lootas were competing with other valuable options like Battlewagons, Kans, and Deffdreds.

 Dysartes wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Orks don't need a 6+ FNP unless they are going to get a large price increase as well. +2 - 4 PPM :/

I'm curious - why do you think they'd need such a large cost increase?

You are getting an army wide 6+ FNP that allows you to save against the usual anti-Horde weaponry that can't be picked out and shot like Meks can.

Space Marines clot wounds instantly and have a redundant organ system, but they don't have a FNP. So fluff isn't a reason for such a nice buff to an army that still maintains a fairly strong Codex.

maybe +2 points per model at the most for this, but an Ork boy is already 6pts and probably has one of the better non-Space Marine stat lines in the game. Not to mention Chaos Space Marines pay 2-5ppm for a 1+ LD and Hatred(Space Marines), I'd say a 6+ FNP is stronger than that. In my opinion, at least.

Especially if KFF stays in!