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This may be a redundant question; But if the Primarchs remained united under the Emperor and Horus never started his heresy. How would a united IoM fair against the threat of Xenos in the 40k universe?

I know our chances would be much much greater, or would the threat of Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and the rest still be too much to overcome regardless.

The Emperor seemed to have pretty big plans and the Legions were crushing just about anything they came across.

It didn't appear as if anything could take apart the Emperor's Imperium of Man from the outside, only from the inside (Chaos).

Personally, I think if there wasn't the HH, then the Emperor's Imperium of Man would be able to take on the modern Xenos threats, such as Orks, Tyranids and Crons etc as we see them today.

Without the HH, Orks would likely be as close to extinct as possible by M41.

 Manchu wrote:
Without the HH, Orks would likely be as close to extinct as possible by M41.

Unless the Emperor decided to go extra-galactic, this is unlikely; probes sent out past the known edge of the galaxy still brought in signals from Orks.

The Tau would definitely be extinct; their expansionist policies clash with the Imperium's. The Eldar and Dark Eldar would be dead as doornails. The Tyranids would be a threat, but not a particularly large one when they are facing against a united Imperium. The Necrons will have probably gone into stasis again; better than dying at the hands of the Imperium.

The only major alien race I see still being alive are the Kroot, if only because the Kroot are pretty good at co-existing with other species (way better than the Tau) and the Imperium's more corrupt elements might find them useful as mercs.

Keep in mind I said "as close to extinct as possible."

And I think some Kroot would sruvive -- basically the animal variety. The Imperium seems to have little issue with non-sentient alien lifeforms.

1068SCP wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Without the HH, Orks would likely be as close to extinct as possible by M41.

Unless the Emperor decided to go extra-galactic, this is unlikely; probes sent out past the known edge of the galaxy still brought in signals from Orks.

The Tau would definitely be extinct; their expansionist policies clash with the Imperium's. The Eldar and Dark Eldar would be dead as doornails. The Tyranids would be a threat, but not a particularly large one when they are facing against a united Imperium. The Necrons will have probably gone into stasis again; better than dying at the hands of the Imperium.

The only major alien race I see still being alive are the Kroot, if only because the Kroot are pretty good at co-existing with other species (way better than the Tau) and the Imperium's more corrupt elements might find them useful as mercs.

I bet the kroots would be dead too honestly but I suppose with Chaos essentially defeated and IoM sitting as undisputed masters that a more tolerant xeno policy could develope.

 Shlazaor wrote:
a more tolerant xeno policy could develop

Just going by the Great Crusade, I'd say naaaaah.

 Manchu wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:
a more tolerant xeno policy could develop

Just going by the Great Crusade, I'd say naaaaah.

To refer to my original post I would agree. But Horus shows evidence of compassion for xeno species that have proven cooperative to humans so ruling it out completely is silly.

 Manchu wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:
a more tolerant xeno policy could develop

Just going by the Great Crusade, I'd say naaaaah.

Exalted. Had a good chuckle, sir.

And agreed on the Orks point.

 Shlazaor wrote:
But Horus shows evidence of compassion for xeno species that have proven cooperative to humans

This is exactly what makes counter-factual reasoning, looking at this in-cannon, so difficult. Horus was ultimately a traitor to the Imperium. The Imperium embraced a zero-tolerance policy toward aliens during the Great Crusade. Therefore Horus showing any kind of compassion toward xenos might just be foreshadowing his eventual treachery. But in the 40k universe we are imagining, the Heresy never occurred. So in this hypothetical universe, it stands to reason that Horus would never have shown compassion toward any xenos.

I would say it's more a demonstration of his humanity (particularly his humanity compared to most other Primarchs), rather than foreshadowing his becoming a traitor. His compassion was mainly because destroying the Xenos would also incur a massive loss of human life IIRC, as well as a huge campaign and dedication of resources.

I agree with your original comment, I don't think Xenos-sympathising would get any stronger under a 30K-in-40K IoM. Heck, quite possibly even worse when they're no longer reclaiming human worlds, just taking aliens.

I think reasonable minds can disagree. Fulgrim comes to mind, here: the Phonecian insisted that the Laer be utterly destroyed, like a good son of the Emperor. On the other hand, his obsession over an "alien" artefact proved his doom.

Remember that if there is no chaos other xeno rases all attack imperium whit out chaos in between and eldar coud be very stronger no slaanesh around. Eldar kindom were much stronger than imperium and they coudent destroy orks how coud puny humans and no eldar crons will rise undisturbed 10x often

Doubt chaos would be as squashed as is believed. Yes they would lose out on CSM but they would still have their Daemons. They would simply continue to corrupt folks at home and cause planets to burn.

As elrad (kind of) said, the Eldar in their prime couldn't kill the orks so how could the Imperium?

@elrad: Slaanesh was born before the Great Crusade and the Horus heresy. Slaanesh would still be kicking and DE would still be <inappropriate verb> - ing.

Although, the SM would be much stronger. No Chapters, just unified armies. The Emperor would have probably finished his work on converting the Eldar Webway for Human use, thus making the Astronomicon worthless. Honostly, he would have probably expanded on it and retaken some of its darker/lost paths. Don't want to know what would have happened had the emperor had gotten ahold of the Black Library. Maybe set out to capture the Immaterium?

I don't know how much stock we can put into the Eldar in their so-called prime. Also, do we really know of any instance in which the Eldar attempted to exterminate the Orks from the entire galaxy? Doesn't sound like their MO. That's a human thing.

Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Necrons would have been wiped out or isolated/unable to move anywhere due to the Emperor's Webway Project (though in the Necrons case, this only applies to Wards Newcrons who need the Webway). Orks would be far less numerous and scattered after successive Crusades. Tau Empire would have been destroyed in short fashion as the Imperium wouldn't be bogged down on so many fronts.

Doubt the Tyranids would have lasted very long against the combined forces of the Legio Astartes, Imperial Army, Collegia Titanica, and so on.

Overall, Imperium would be in a lot better shape....

I meant if they were to weaken slaanesh or in some crazy luck streak to destroy it ( if it is possible) and he/she/it were unable to suck eldar souls.

Humanity would be sipping beer on a hot beach and discussing all the Xenos and Daemon heads that they decapitated while they took over the galaxy.

elrad wrote:I meant if they were to weaken slaanesh or in some crazy luck streak to destroy it ( if it is possible) and he/she/it were unable to suck eldar souls.

Eldar may be able to weaken Slaanesh but (according the Eldrad's divination) Slaanesh will only die once Yreil has awakened. Unfortunately, Yreil can only awaken once all of the Eldar (assuming both Craftworld and Dark) have died, with Fuegan being the last one to fall.

Manchu wrote: I don't know how much stock we can put into the Eldar in their so-called prime. Also, do we really know of any instance in which the Eldar attempted to exterminate the Orks from the entire galaxy? Doesn't sound like their MO. That's a human thing.

The Eldar in their Prime were quite literally able to destroy suns in (assumingly) the same manner as Blackstone fortresses. The only other race to hit this level of tech were the Necron with their Galactic Orory. You've also to consider a "unified" Eldar. Millions of worlds settled by a psychically gifted, technologically advanced and very bored people. The Eldar in their prime would be quite scary considering in their waning ages they can still produce Moon Sized vessels and Titans which use the warp itself as a weapon. Unfortunately, that all ended during The Fall when Slaanesh cried and melted the brains of pretty much everything "nearby", exploded the brain of every Eldar not currently in a fully sealed wraithbone vessel and kicked off the Imperium's "Age of the Imperium".

About the orks, yah; you're pretty much right.

Eldar are still able to destroy suns.

If HH never happened and all Primarchs left loyal to the Emperor...
Imagine the entire galaxy only as Imperium of Mankind with Space Marine Legions that now number millions of Astartes in each and the fact that are using Imperial version of Webway.

Not even Tyranids couldn't stand against them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

elrad wrote:
Eldar are still able to destroy suns.

Your point?
Necrons have the ability to do that too and they didn't try it even once.
Because they also have a galaxy to live in.