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Do the wings can be target or just the heldrake body?

The wings, same as a vendetta

i dont know about the vendetta too

Any part of the model I have it as

..that isnt a weapon barrel, or other parts that are disallowed

Ha, It would have to be a strange situation and a non very sporting opponent to claim to see the end of a barrel.

bowlord wrote:
Do the wings can be target or just the heldrake body?

Yes the wings can be targeted

usually, only the spiky bits (think Dark Eldar / Chaos) and weapon barrels are not taken into account
it's important to remember that you measure distances from the support of vehicles' weapons, not from the end of the barrel (it is thus balanced as you have to reach the hull / wings of a vehicle to be in range)

TanKoL wrote:
usually, only the spiky bits (think Dark Eldar / Chaos) and weapon barrels are not taken into account
it's important to remember that you measure distances from the support of vehicles' weapons, not from the end of the barrel (it is thus balanced as you have to reach the hull / wings of a vehicle to be in range)

The underlined is in contradiction with the rules.

I call bs on not measuring from the end of a gun.

Range is measured from the end of the barrel. LOS is determined from the weapon mount, down the length of the barrel.

"When firing a vehicle's weapons, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon," P.71 (So we have the relevant rules quote).

The muzzle is the circular opening on the business end of the gun.

(So technically if there is no opening then the weapon can not check range from anywhere...)

 DeathReaper wrote:
"When firing a vehicle's weapons, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon," P.71 (So we have the relevant rules quote).

The muzzle is the circular opening on the business end of the gun.

(So technically if there is no opening then the weapon can not check range from anywhere...)

Validation for the drill-your-guns crowd?

What if it's a missile.. they don't have muzzles.

 Shandara wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
"When firing a vehicle's weapons, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon," P.71 (So we have the relevant rules quote).

The muzzle is the circular opening on the business end of the gun.

(So technically if there is no opening then the weapon can not check range from anywhere...)

Validation for the drill-your-guns crowd?

What if it's a missile.. they don't have muzzles.

I guess at some point common sense has to strike, and we agree that the "muzzle" of a missile could be the "warhead"

 Shandara wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
"When firing a vehicle's weapons, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon," P.71 (So we have the relevant rules quote).

The muzzle is the circular opening on the business end of the gun.

(So technically if there is no opening then the weapon can not check range from anywhere...)

Validation for the drill-your-guns crowd?

What if it's a missile.. they don't have muzzles.

Yes you have to drill-your-guns on your vehicles in 6th.

By strict RAW missiles may never check range and thus may not fire.

But that is a silly interpretation.

We should just play it as the front tip or "Warhead" of the missile instead of the muzzle in that case, like jdjamesdean@mail.com suggests. (This is the RAI viewpoint as RAW you are only allowed to check range for a vehicle weapon with a muzzle).

When you are targeting DE gunboats, can you target the sail?

 Niiai wrote:
When you are targeting DE gunboats, can you target the sail?

The rules for targeting a vehicle are on Page 73, Left column, 1st graph.

You "(ignor[e] the vehicle's gun barrels, antennas decorative banner poles, etc.)." Not sure what exactly is covered by etc.

The sail, IIRC, is an upgrade called Enhanced Aether sails. Personally I would say its a decorative element as one is never required to modeled them aside from when they buy that upgrade, and even then they could count as it to something else, like enhanced engines.

 arinnoor wrote:
The sail, IIRC, is an upgrade called Enhanced Aether sails. Personally I would say its a decorative element as one is never required to modeled them aside from when they buy that upgrade, and even then they could count as it to something else, like enhanced engines.

So by that logic I can draw LOS to the Mast, as it's not an upgrade. Just the sails

Isn't the mast a piece of the sail? I'm just saying the Raider/Ravager doesn't need them on too my knowledge. I know a player or two who've intentionally not put the sail pieces on, because he thought they would count as the aether sail and he didn't want to model an upgrade he wasn't buying, WYSIWYG and all that.

 arinnoor wrote:
Isn't the mast a piece of the sail? I'm just saying the Raider/Ravager doesn't need them on too my knowledge. I know a player or two who've intentionally not put the sail pieces on, because he thought they would count as the aether sail and he didn't want to model an upgrade he wasn't buying, WYSIWYG and all that.

No a sail is a piece of fabric or material that is used to catch wind or in this case "aether" or something of the sort.

Just seen this as I was reading about something else, page 80

It says, 'distances are still measured to and from the flyers hull, with the exceptions of the vehicles weapons and fire points, which all work as normal'.

Going by that I would say you have to be able to see the hull in order to target the flyer?

MarkyMark wrote:
Just seen this as I was reading about something else, page 80
It says, 'distances are still measured to and from the flyers hull, with the exceptions of the vehicles weapons and fire points, which all work as normal'.
Going by that I would say you have to be able to see the hull in order to target the flyer?

Yes, same as with all other vehicles. Remember that the wings are part of vehicles hull (see page 73).

Luide wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Just seen this as I was reading about something else, page 80
It says, 'distances are still measured to and from the flyers hull, with the exceptions of the vehicles weapons and fire points, which all work as normal'.
Going by that I would say you have to be able to see the hull in order to target the flyer?

Yes, same as with all other vehicles. Remember that the wings are part of vehicles hull (see page 73).

Yes, and assuming you follow the assembly directions on raiders you need to put the mast/sail on as well. Which are not barrels,antennas or decorative banners. With models like Heldrakes/Vendettas/StormRavens it's hard not to see the hull though.

Okay, did not realize the Heldrake was a flyer. Though it was an FMC. Wings are target able on it then, good to know as out local CSM fields 2 of them.