Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok so im coming back to 40k after having quit a year or two before the end of 5th edition. So while I am not entirely new to the game, i am so out of touch with whats good, whats bad, whats needed. I have come up with this list that is mostly CSM with daemon allied and is Tzeentchy. Im looking for tweaks and general advice, and hopefully dont need a complete overhaul. I am not opposed to using other gods, but tzeentch is the greatest god so it seemed like a good starting point.

[CHAOS!

HQ:
Ahriman - 230

Sorcerer - 210
+Mark of Tzeentch -
+2 levels -
+Sigil of Corruption -
+Scroll of Magnus -
+Spell Familiar -


Troops:

Thousand Sons (x9) - 252
+ 4 Troops -
+Gift of Mutation -

Thousand Sons (x9) - 262
+ 4 Troops -
+Gift of Mutation -
+Rhino -
Elites:

Chaos Terminators (x5) - 212
+2 Troops -
+Gift of Mutation -
+Heavy Flamer -
+Combi-Melta -
+Combi-Melta -
+Combi-melta -
+Icon of Tzeentch -
+Veterans -

Fast Attack:

Helldrake 170






Daemons!

HQ:
Blue Scribes: 130

Herald of tzeentch - 90
+Chariot -
+Chaos Icon -

Troops:

Pink Horrors X9 - 168
+Changeling -
+Bolt of Tzeentch -

Fast Attack:

Screamers of Tzeentch (x6) - 96

Heavy Support:

Daemon Prince - 190
+Mark of Tzeentch -
+Soul Devourer -
+Breath of Chaos -
+Instrument of Chaos -
+Iron Hide -

Total: 2000


Thanks!

unless im reading your list wrong you have very few units,

on your sorcer the scroll is a random power that probably isnt usefull

you have x2 9 man squads of 1000 sons with gift, thats always nice

7 terminators, i have no idea what you plan on doing with these guys gust give them all combi melta and 1 heavy flamer

heldrake with bale flamer

keep fate weaver close to your 1000 sons but make sure that he isnt going to die because he will be focused on

pink horrors are meh

Honestly I would do the following:

1. Drop the Gifts of Mutation. The buffs are nice but I have gotten Eternal Warrior on a 1 wound model more times then anything useful.

2. Drop the Icon of Flame. Soulblaze is awful as you can only ever place one Soulblaze token by a unit no matter how much is shot at them.

3.Add a Rhino to your other Thousand Sons squad. No point using them to hold back or anything in my opinion. They're expensive and need to kill something.

4. Drop the Scroll of Magnus and Terminator Armor off the Sorcerer and give him another mastery level and stick him with one of the Thousand Sons Squad.

5. For the Daemons, Screamers and Flamers are really really good and you need something fast to kill tanks along with your Heldrake so either go with these or minimum Nurgle Bikers with Melta bombs and a Meltagun.

I don't know if it's any good or if it would work but what I would try is use Ahriman to infiltrate your Thousand Sons then reinforce with the Daemons. Might have to give something like this a shot myself, seems like fun.

Why are you taking Fateweaver with this list? His main benefit or re-rolling invuls doesn't work on CSM anymore (FAQ). At this, I would take an LoC or Herald of Tzentch on a chariot. I would drop the horrors down to 1 5 man squad. You have anti-infantry fire from your thousand sons.

I would and screamers and flamers as mentioned above. They are both nasty and will both become high priority targets for your opponent to deal with. I also agree about Icon of Flame going away, a 2nd rhino, and ditching the terminator armor on your sorceror. Unless your plan is to place him with the terminator squad and deep strike them in as well.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Why are you taking Fateweaver with this list? His main benefit or re-rolling invuls doesn't work on CSM anymore (FAQ). At this, I would take an LoC or Herald of Tzentch on a chariot. I would drop the horrors down to 1 5 man squad. You have anti-infantry fire from your thousand sons.

I would and screamers and flamers as mentioned above. They are both nasty and will both become high priority targets for your opponent to deal with. I also agree about Icon of Flame going away, a 2nd rhino, and ditching the terminator armor on your sorceror. Unless your plan is to place him with the terminator squad and deep strike them in as well.

Erm im not seeing why you guys are telling me to drop icon of flames, none of my units have them.

Fateweaver is an old favorite, and part of the reason i have 18 horrors is to take better advantage of his reroll aura.I was planning on keeping them as a group, with the horrors screening Fateweaver and ideally blast holes in everything close. Also 9 is tzeentch's number. iirc fateweaver was a better LoC with the possibility of being 1-3 wounds randomly.

The sorc was intended to be with the termies. The termies are intended to fill in the role of heavy weapons, since the list seemed lacking. I wasnt sure which to focus on so i went with a diverse group. Was that a good choice?

Hmm, with that in mind, what do you drop to fit in flamers and screamers?

We meant the Icon of Tzeentch in the termies.

Fateweaver is better than an LoC in some respects, but not others. One is cost. Granted, a fully tricked out LoC is practically the same cost as Fateweaver. But, the LoC is S 6 T 6 compared to Kairos' S5 T5. Horrors don't blast much of anything. They are good for killing infantry, but one shot at BS4 per turn for the bolt never seems to hit for me. When it does, I inevitably roll a 1 for damage.

If you are going to take Fateweaver, I would recommend taking daemons as your primary detachment and augmenting in Ahriman and a small detachment of T-Sons and other chaos stuff. As it stands now, you are woefully understaffed when it comes to reliable anti-armor. Fateweaver can flip over tanks, but he is very easy to tide down in CC. Termies may help as well, but you lack ranged anti AV14 weaponry.

 Green is Best! wrote:
We meant the Icon of Tzeentch in the termies.

If you are going to take Fateweaver, I would recommend taking daemons as your primary detachment and augmenting in Ahriman and a small detachment of T-Sons and other chaos stuff. As it stands now, you are woefully understaffed when it comes to reliable anti-armor. Fateweaver can flip over tanks, but he is very easy to tide down in CC. Termies may help as well, but you lack ranged anti AV14 weaponry.

Hmm, Well i'll drop fateweaver and pick up a herald of tzeentch or the blue scribes, and i wont need as many horrors. What would you suggest to add to the list then? Screamers? a Tzeentch DP from daemons? Both?

I think that swapping around would create the same issue with ahriman and the 1k sons instead.

On the Sorc I'll drop the termie armor and pick up the sigil of corruption and stick him in the rhino, since i built him to be a ranged spell slinger.

This list seems pretty decent, though I would change the demonic allies to include screamers and flamers... They add so much where TS armies generally struggle. They can get where they need to get fast and take out vehicles and 2+ armor really well (never underestimate a combo charge of a large unit of screamers). Between a Hell Drake and Thousand Sons, you should do fine against anything else.


Helldrakes are good, I've decided to take two so maybe you can add another one in there somewhere. You might want to include a cheap unit of cultists (I like to take 17ish) to stick either Ahriman or another sorcerer in to hang back on an objective...if you get invisibility it goes a long way (though when cast on demon allies or terminators, it goes a lot farther!).

Ok so i've modified the original post to reflect the changes I made. The only change I made to the CSM was swapping out termie armor on the sorc, but the Daemon section was almost completely changed. The DP is designed to get into melee and clog/breathe them to death. The herald is designed to kinda hang back in the middle, ideally acting as a beacon for stable deep strikes while taking pot shots as needed.

The scrolls of magnus are not needed, you can drop those for a decent points boost and the blue scribes are not that great either imo. You could drop the horrors to 5 and put the herald in there and spend the saved points on more screamers/flamers...they are that good.

Regarding the demon prince, you probably don't need the 3+ save and I think one of the draws for the DP is for a BS5 S8 Ap1 shot (bolt of change) you can take at other flyers, swoop behind a flyer and shoot at rear armor, yum. I think I like to keep these as cheap as possible.