Feel no pain, instant death, eternal warrior

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**Dragonzord**

If a model (toughness 5, with feel no pain and eternal warrior) gets hit by a str10 weapon, does the model get feel no pain?

Fnp is negated by instant death weapons (str x2 of toughness), but eternal warrior makes it so that the model cannot be instant deathed.

**rigeld2**

Check the BRB FAQ - no.

**Dragonzord**

Just did, and that makes no sense, at all.

Immune to the effects of instant death, and an effect of instant death is getting no fnp roll.. How can they say no to that, when its clearly stated in their rules.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Dragonzord wrote:
Just did, and that makes no sense, at all.

Immune to the effects of instant death, and an effect of instant death is getting no fnp roll.. How can they say no to that, when its clearly stated in their rules.

Easy No is a shorter answer than yes. Remember GW writers are paid by the letter (hope thats a joke)

**grendel083**

Because the weapon still inflicts Instant Death. Even though the model is immune to the effects, it's doesn't mean the weapon doesn't cause it.
And as such FNP is negated.

**rigeld2**

Dragonzord wrote:
Just did, and that makes no sense, at all.

Immune to the effects of instant death, and an effect of instant death is getting no fnp roll.. How can they say no to that, when its clearly stated in their rules.

Denying FNP is not an effect of Instant Death. It's a requirement in FNP. We know that because of where the requirement is stated in the rules.

**DeathReaper**

rigeld2 wrote:
Dragonzord wrote:
Just did, and that makes no sense, at all.

Immune to the effects of instant death, and an effect of instant death is getting no fnp roll.. How can they say no to that, when its clearly stated in their rules.

Denying FNP is not an effect of Instant Death. It's a requirement in FNP. We know that because of where the requirement is stated in the rules.

This +1!

Denying FNP is not an effect of the ID rule as denying FNP is not mentioned in the ID rule.

**nosferatu1001**

Dragonzord wrote:
Just did, and that makes no sense, at all.

Immune to the effects of instant death, and an effect of instant death is getting no fnp roll.. How can they say no to that, when its clearly stated in their rules.

Nope, a restriction on FNP is Instant Death. Youre looking at this the wrong way round, making a common mistake

**Ub3rb3n**

doesnt matter it is still a no, ha

**Neorealist**

Yeah the FAQ is pretty clear. Even if it would have probably been a nice (and not unbalancing imho) benefit to Eternal Warrior to enable FNP in that scenario, that is not what they've chosen to do. Ah well.

**jms40k**

Regardless of where the rule is stated, denying feel no pain is most definitely am effect of instant death. FNP doesn't apply because of instant death. However, that is a semantics argument and doesn't matter as the FAQ explicitly disallows eternal warriors from making a FNP roll after a roll that would otherwise cause instant death.

**DeathReaper**

jms40k wrote:
Regardless of where the rule is stated, denying feel no pain is most definitely am effect of instant death. FNP doesn't apply because of instant death. However, that is a semantics argument and doesn't matter as the FAQ explicitly disallows eternal warriors from making a FNP roll after a roll that would otherwise cause instant death.

No, you are making a common mistake.

Denying FNP is is not an effect of ID.

Denying FNP is a restriction within the FNP rule.

**Eldercaveman**

DeathReaper wrote:
jms40k wrote:
Regardless of where the rule is stated, denying feel no pain is most definitely am effect of instant death. FNP doesn't apply because of instant death. However, that is a semantics argument and doesn't matter as the FAQ explicitly disallows eternal warriors from making a FNP roll after a roll that would otherwise cause instant death.
No, you are making a common mistake.

Denying FNP is is not an effect of ID.

Denying FNP is a restriction within the FNP rule.

Either way, it's still a no.

**overlordweasel**

doesn't the immunity to ID rule have a side note were it doesn't count to double T hits only to effects such as force weapons? I don't have my BRB with me atm, so I'm a little unsure. But if that's the case, wouldn't that make this a moot point according to the OPs example?

**Eldercaveman**

Nope all the EW rule says is ' a model with this special rule is immune to the effects of instant death.

**nosferatu1001**

overlordweasel wrote:
doesn't the immunity to ID rule have a side note were it doesn't count to double T hits only to effects such as force weapons? I don't have my BRB with me atm, so I'm a little unsure. But if that's the case, wouldn't that make this a moot point according to the OPs example?

No, that is nothing like EW. EW is immunity to ID rule.

**jms40k**

DeathReaper wrote:
jms40k wrote:
Regardless of where the rule is stated, denying feel no pain is most definitely am effect of instant death. FNP doesn't apply because of instant death. However, that is a semantics argument and doesn't matter as the FAQ explicitly disallows eternal warriors from making a FNP roll after a roll that would otherwise cause instant death.
No, you are making a common mistake.

Denying FNP is is not an effect of ID.

Denying FNP is a restriction within the FNP rule.

Again, this is a semantics argument. Why does FNP not trigger? If it is because a weapon causes Instant Death, then that is an effect of Instant Death. The fact that the restriction is placed in the FNP USR is irrelevant since it is the Instant Death rule that is denying FNP (that is, if it weren't for Instant Death, FNP would work as expected). Anyways that's the last I'll say about that as the question has most definitely been answered.

**nosferatu1001**

Yes, it is a rulesargument, meaning it must be semantics

The restriciton is in FNP, not EW.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

jms40k wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
jms40k wrote:
Regardless of where the rule is stated, denying feel no pain is most definitely am effect of instant death. FNP doesn't apply because of instant death. However, that is a semantics argument and doesn't matter as the FAQ explicitly disallows eternal warriors from making a FNP roll after a roll that would otherwise cause instant death.
No, you are making a common mistake.

Denying FNP is is not an effect of ID.

Denying FNP is a restriction within the FNP rule.

Again, this is a semantics argument. Why does FNP not trigger? If it is because a weapon causes Instant Death, then that is an effect of Instant Death. The fact that the restriction is placed in the FNP USR is irrelevant since it is the Instant Death rule that is denying FNP (that is, if it weren't for Instant Death, FNP would work as expected). Anyways that's the last I'll say about that as the question has most definitely been answered.

If the weapon causes ID you don't get FNP. There's nothing in EW that gets around it. The weapon still inflicts ID, EW is just immune to ID effects.

**overlordweasel**

so what happens to a model when its hit wit ha double T hit? Just take one wound without rolling to wound or what??? if there's a roll to wound, what do you roll to?

**Eldercaveman**

Even if the weapon has strength that is Double T, you still get to make your saves, so a krak missile hits a terminator armoured captain, he has mutiple wounds, but has a better save than the ap of the weapon, so can still attempt his 2+, but if he fails it, poof he's gone. However if you change that too someone with EW, like the Sanguinor who has 2+ 3++ and hit him with a melta, str 8 ap 1. It's ignoring his armour save so he gets to take his inv save, if he fails it, its double his toughness, but his EW kicks in and he only looses one wound.

**Spetulhu**

overlordweasel wrote:
so what happens to a model when its hit wit ha double T hit? Just take one wound without rolling to wound or what??? if there's a roll to wound, what do you roll to?

Instant Death is checked for once the model has suffered an unsaved wound. By that time you've rolled to hit it, rolled to wound it and it's rolled any save the attack might allow.

**overlordweasel**

wow, so inadvertently learned something just now. only the ap matters when you take armor saves. you can actually armor save a double toughness wound? huh, i wonder were i got the notion that double T hits took armor saves away as well?

**Eldercaveman**

Well a lot of high strength weapons do have a high AP as well, so they do often go hand in hand

**Spetulhu**

overlordweasel wrote:
huh, i wonder were i got the notion that double T hits took armor saves away as well?

It's not an uncommon idea. When something's called Instant Death players sometimes go with just that instead of bothering with to-wound or saves. Learn to play with guys that have been doing that (or some other funky misunderstanding) and you too will be doing it.

**Lordhat**

Spetulhu wrote:
overlordweasel wrote:
huh, i wonder were i got the notion that double T hits took armor saves away as well?

It's not an uncommon idea. When something's called Instant Death players sometimes go with just that instead of bothering with to-wound or saves. Learn to play with guys that have been doing that (or some other funky misunderstanding) and you too will be doing it.

I too got that idea when I was first learning the rules back in 3rd edition; As my friends and I didn't play at any stores to begin with, we learned from the book, not other players. Luckily I was astute enough to ask the question on a forum before we actually started playing.