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What's attracting folks to Malifaux, the rules or the fluff/models?
I'm a bit torn with the game. The rules strike me as being incredible. Well thought out, carefully written, clever mechanics, simple but with depth... Card mechanic assures that "luck" balances out, and even somewhat allows the players to control luck, and make it less of a factor.
The fluff, I can't really get behind. Too focused on boobs, big shoes, odd, goofy, strangeness. I like boobs as much (probably more) than the next guy, but for my little plastic man games, I prefer to pretend I'm a big screaming soldier, instead of a sexy lady. I also don't entirely get the scale choice. For a game that doesn't have a high model count, the models are awfully tiny.
So, bottom line, I want to play the game, I want to like it, but the models and fluff make it hard for me to commit to painting a crew...
It is the models for me. I wanted to try a skirmish game and loath metal models. I am also trying Warmachine but Malifaux has that game beat because they're using actual plastic and not resin or resin/metal hybrid kits. It also helps that the models are amazing. As for being tiny, 32mm is larger than GW models. They just don't have the fat hands/head/feet like GW stuff does.
As for the fluff, I'll find out more about that when my book arrives.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/13 07:17:19
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the fluff being all about boobs, big shoes, etc... The genre does have undead hookers, a blind lady with huge tracts of land, show girls, and "beckoners" (basically hot ladies that get you to stay in the casino), but those models are not representative of the entire game. Could you kind of explain what you mean?
As to the scale question, the new plastics are fiddly-ish (they seem so much skinnier than the metal models, but the scale is the same. All of Wyrd's the models are of the same scale as Warmachine, 40k, etc... Even GW skirmish sized games are 28mm, and technically the Wyrd models are 32mm scale (which measures to the eyes).
The other hand, if you want larger models to play with and still want to play Malifaux, a dreamer list with 3 teddies has four 50mm based models, and one 30mm (who is smaller than an Imperial Guardsman because he's a little kid).
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Seems like the OP's talking mostly about the models, re: "fluff"?
The game is much more skirmish-oriented, and (with the exception of some of the Guild) virtually no regimented organization that would resemble a military structure: The entire game is structured around outside-of-the-box thinking, with strong emphases on methods of victory not based on brute force (not that tabling your opponent won't help, but it's rarely a win condition). If you're looking to have a bunch of armies fight, this is probably the wrong game for you, but it's definitely worth a look.
The fluff is not based on sex and boots, but is a much more even balance of social interactions than straight combat. For instance: two opposed leaders working together against a common threat; one character whose mentor is another's leader; a number of characters who are mercenaries because it represents divided loyalties rather than that they accept pay and have no loyalties. In short, it represents a number of factions and personal agendas, rather than armies, at work
If you want a more uniform/regimented/military set of minis, gangs to look at include:
-the friekorps (mercs)
-lucius/guardsmen/special forces (guard/officers/covert ops)
-ramos (robots)
-the ortegas (vigilante/deputized family)
The minis tend to be a little on the small side, but it's mostly that they have more realistic (rather than Heroic) proportions that makes them look smaller.
Currently the only book I have is the 1.5 Rulebook. That may be coloring my perception. In looking at the Masters available in there, the majority of them are female, and all but one of those are "sexy." And the one who isn't "sexy" has big naked hag boobs.
Lady Justice, Criid, Perdita, those two Neverborn women, etc. etc. These are all clearly meant to be alluring female characters.
There's some random girl with massive jugs and a barely-covering-them t-shirt. And a hammer.
Then there's dudes like Seamus, who, in addition to wearing strange platform shoes, is being followed around by undead prostitutes.
There's some random totem called "Empty Husk" or something, that, for no clear reason, is just a buxom woman in lingerie. Huh?
I'm not at all opposed to having females in the game. I've got about 2000 points of fully painted Sisters of Battle. It's just something about the fluff feels like it's trying to force females into the game, and can't see how they'd be in there without really huge boobs.
What further confuses it for me, is that the females tend, by and large, to be the most smashy sorts in the game. It just feels like a deliberate, ham-handed attempt at "bucking convention," when, honestly, I think the rules stand on their own as being really worthwhile, and don't need some contrived shock-porn-whatever to do it.
The only Masters that seemed somewhat interesting to me were Nicodem and that shapechanger dreadhead dude. Everyone else was either a big busted female, a squirrelly little lunatic, or... Well, that's pretty much it. I guess there's a hick gremlin in there.
If those guys would release a more "mainstream" version of the game, same basic mechanics, but with a more conventional set of forces (and bigger models), I'd be all over it. As it stands, I can't get behind much of it.
But then, as I mentioned, I may need some other book or expansion to see som better forces.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/14 05:03:37
Some of the female models are a bit cheesecake, but at the same time I would say that those are the exception rather than the norm, but there are showgirls, undead hookers, and "beckoners" Its fine that you don't like them, you're not supposed to like everyone. I mean there is a nude woman (with a sheet covering her front) that has her backside ripped and shows muscle and bone.
Even though there are hookers, hookers, and dancers, they're all tastefully done. The Rotten Belles aren't exposing anything, the beckoners are bending over, but they're still pretty okay.
You should pick up some of the other books if you want different masters (book 3 has their avatars, so no new masters).
But there are the following Masters:
Spoiler:
The Factions
Guild Lady Justice - LJ is a melee master, and her box tends to be the "anti-Ressers". Her and the Death Marshals tend to have abilities that disrupt Resurrectionists. Their abilities don't create corpse counters, and when they die, they don't drop corpse counters either. This prevents many of the summoning abilities of the Resurrectionists, at least those that require corpse counters.
Perdita Ortega - Perdita and her family are the "anti-neverborn" faction. They tend to be ranged combatants, and Perdita herself has some abilities that allow her to see through cloud effects, ignore forms of cover. Her crew can all activate together based on the Companion rule, though not all of them are ranged masters like Perdita.
Sonnia Criid - The Pyrokinetic Witch Hunter . The Anti-Arcanist, capable of fighting in Melee and at Range, but specializes in Magic (both casting and countering it). Her powerful 'pyrokinetic abilities' punishes all she faces with ash and immolation. Her crew also has ways of disrupting magic.
C. Hoffman - The Deus ex Constructica. A Construct Synergist. Rather than summoning new minions (like Ramos and Leveticus), he instead specializes in maintenance - buffing his mechanized army and removing their weaknesses.
Lucas McCabe - The Treasure Hunter. Dual Faction Ten Thunders. A fast-moving mounted master with variable equipment. Lucas McCabe has several effects that Slow or Paralyze opponents, and gets tougher when surrounded.
Resurrectionists
Dr McMourning - (aka Doc Frankenstein) The Close-Combat Surgeon Summoner. Fast and hard to kill, this Master dissects his opponents before stitching the stolen body parts together to produce Frankenstein-style monsters that do horrible things to opponents in melee.
Nicodem - The Zombie Horde Lord. Somewhat fragile without a bodyguard of undead, but can raise and buff his hordes of undead easily and has some nice ranged offensive spells.
Seamus - (aka Jack the Ripper) The Mad Hatter with a Hand Cannon. Not a great summoner, but he and his crew of dead prostitutes lure enemy models in before either blowing them away with his hand cannon or making them run with his excellent terrifying abilities.
Kirai Ankoku - The Spirit Master. Uses her own wounds rather than corpses to summon her very resiliant spirits, and supports them by providing excellent mobility and healing the wounded ones.
Yan Lo - The Enlightened Necromancer. Dual Faction Resurrectionist/Ten Thunders. Yan Lo grows in personal power as models die around him. He can store friendly dead Ancestors and rebuild them with Corpse Counters, and gains new abilities from one of three paths when non-Ancestors are killed near him.
Arcanists Marcus - The Beast Master. Not a lot of direct damage spells. With his crew of beasts he plays an aggressive hit-and-run game
Ramos - The Cyber-Spider Summoner. He has some direct damage electrical spells, but for the most part he specializes in creating mechanical spiders that move up and kill/detonate vs. enemy models.
Rasputina - The Ice Witch. Slow, but very good at dealing a lot of damage by throwing ice magic through her minions from a safe distance away (Warmachine players: think arc nodes)
Colette Du Bois - The Stage-Showgirl, Soulstone Master. Colette focuses mostly on swapping models in her crew around, making and using soulstones to power her spells, while dancing around the board to stay out of danger. A tricky master to get your head around.
Mei Feng - The Human Freight Train. Dual Faction Arcanist/Ten Thunders. Can leapfrog convoy along chains of friendly Constructs, and bounce from opponent to opponent in long chains of Strikes, Spells, and Triggers. A melee spellcaster.
Neverborn Lilith - The Vampire/ Monster Breeder; a very swift, melee-focused, infamous "cradle-snatcher". She throws her opponents into disarray by shifting models around, switching foes with her minions, and summoning earthquakes or forests to create or prevent charge lanes. Once in melee she drains the lifeless bodies of her victims of blood to feed her Nephilim and help them mature.
Pandora - The Mind Freak; uses willpower duels for protection, movement and to destroy enemy models one wound at a time.
Zoraida - The Voodoo Swamp Hag; tends to manipulate everyone around her to suit her goals, preventing her opponent from cheating down cards and forcing enemy and friendly models to attack each other
The Dreamer/Lord Chompy Bits - The Innocent Menace; the psyche of a sleeping child made manifest in Malifaux. Believing it all to be a dream, he plays with his foes without realizing these toys are real people. Flying about the board, he summons and buries his crew of "Nightmares" and when he takes his fancy, he becomes the massive and extremely lethal "Nightmare".
Jakob Lynch - The Bliss-Pushing Card Shark. Dual Faction Neverborn/Ten Thunders. Manipulates his hand and his enemy's hand in a variety of extremely potent ways, while relying on his dangerous Spirit Totem to do the heavy combat. His crew infects enemy models with Brilliance, then gain benefits from it.
Outcasts Leveticus - The Steampunk Necromancer. This creepy old man blends technology with necromancy to deliver death and turn his victims into steampunk monsters who further the assimilation. His fearsome arsenal of spells are powered by his own life force, causing him to constantly die each turn only to be brought back to life in the next, Nothing short of killing both him and his totem-like Waifs will remove him from a battlefield. He is considered one of the hardest Masters to learn.
Som'er Teeth Jones - The Hillbilly Horde Master. A crew of happy, self destructive Gremlins and Pigs with poor stats but fully capable of overwhelming other crews through sheer weight of numbers.
The Viktorias - The Twins. Two Masters in one, and poster children of Malifaux. Their crew tends to consist of some excellent specialists with minimal synergy between them. One of the easier Masters to employ but by no means the weakest.
Hamelin the Plagued - The Tyrant of Plague. Kills you with Blight Counters, hordes of rats and by making your models unable to target Hamelin or take objectives. Linked in the background to Hamelin the Piper, a seperate model who was Hamelin prior to becoming the Plague Bringer.
Ten Thunders This is a brand new faction. There is currently only 1 pure Ten Thunders Master, Misaki. The other four are dual-faction Masters, which means they can be hired as their respective faction, or Ten Thunders, which limits which models they can hire.
Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders - The Assassin. A single-target specialist. Misaki gets many actions every activation, with many abilities that set her into a one-on-one fight with a single enemy. She also has potent defense, some crew support, and the ability to steal Soulstones from enemy leaders.
So there are all the masters, something might pique your interest.
Could you explain what you mean by making Malifaux more "Mainstream"? The game itself is in it's 4th year, and it might be a bit too late for a major company (Wyrd is the 3rd most selling game company in 2011) to make a massive shift in their game.
The conventional forces don't work (assuming you mean something like a good guy and a bad guy) in Malifaux because the entire world is very shades of grey. The Neverborn are considered a bit of the villains in the game, but they're FROM Malifaux, they were invaded by the Earthers from our side of the breach.
And as to the size, most skirmish games are in this size range. Again, this might be more towards the whole, lack of heroic proportions that 40k has.
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
Honestly, yeah, there's a lot of skin, which I don't always agree with, but I'm happy to take that with a generally more adult game, which is marketed as such. This isn't to say that I don't like 40k's dark hyperbole and gothic setting (along with a casual ruleset) or WM's highly competitive rules, but I really find Malifaux's more adult feel the most rewarding.
1. The fluff/look of the game. Was not a game that took place in the past/ mythology like WHFB or the war torn future (40k). A unique setting and therefore unique look. Really, are the manti games that different looking from the GW games?
2. The models. Don't need a lot of them. Those models you need multiples of, you get multiple poses. Even though you paint three witching stalkers, guild guards, or death Marshall's, there are at least three different poses for them. I know there are different poses and you can model the basic tactical squad in ten different ways, but, once you paint a space marine, it is all the same father.
3. Cost. The simple cheap cost to get into the game really got the game going where I live, cental Texas. Starter box, rules manual, and deck of cards. Under $70.00. Is there a game system other than Malifaux that can share that?
Once you get the hang of the core rules and really learn your faction, games are quick and fun. You are active on offense and defense, more so than otaher game systems. I usually play a 40 point/soul stone game in an hour or less.
FWIW, I recognize that "there's no accounting for taste." I'm not really expecting anyone to change my mind, or vice versa, I was mainly trying to determine if people were attracted to the fluff, to the rules, etc...
So, when I'm whining about elements of the fluff I don't like, I'm not so much demanding that they be defended as wondering if people felt the same, but elected to get past it, and were glad they did.
People have listed a ton of items I think are great. The core rules, the somewhat "orthagonal" objectives which create a lot of complexity in strategy... All of that's great. I'm REALLY impressed with the rules.
And, yeah, as far as "mainstream" goes, I don't mean the adoption level, I just mean I'd prefer a more traditional fluff space to play in. For some people, that's not a plus, I'm just saying what I'd like to see, not that it should happen, or that it would be better for all.
Phryxis wrote: FWIW, I recognize that "there's no accounting for taste." I'm not really expecting anyone to change my mind, or vice versa, I was mainly trying to determine if people were attracted to the fluff, to the rules, etc...
So, when I'm whining about elements of the fluff I don't like, I'm not so much demanding that they be defended as wondering if people felt the same, but elected to get past it, and were glad they did.
People have listed a ton of items I think are great. The core rules, the somewhat "orthagonal" objectives which create a lot of complexity in strategy... All of that's great. I'm REALLY impressed with the rules.
And, yeah, as far as "mainstream" goes, I don't mean the adoption level, I just mean I'd prefer a more traditional fluff space to play in. For some people, that's not a plus, I'm just saying what I'd like to see, not that it should happen, or that it would be better for all.
Okay, that make's a little bit more sense. I'm assuming you do mean fluff as in models with "fluffy" bits of the models.
I never really noticed the bouncier bits, because I was too enticed by the hitting that Lady J was doing lol
You're right, to each his own. The reason why I gave a list of the masters is so you could take a look at them all, possibly see their starter boxes, and find one that you like
Hope you pick up the game man
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I just got book four, Storm of Shadows, in the mail today (yay!) and can find only three images of women dressed in an exhibitionist manner. The rest of the women in the book are portrayed rather conservatively either being fully covered up or being mostly covered. It brings the whole "asian" theme into the game rather nicely and makes me feel even better about choosing them as my main faction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/15 03:27:19
Breotan wrote: I just got book four, Storm of Shadows, in the mail today (yay!) and can find only three images of women dressed in an exhibitionist manner. The rest of the women in the book are portrayed rather conservatively either being fully covered up or being mostly covered. It brings the whole "asian" theme into the game rather nicely and makes me feel even better about choosing them as my main faction.
Misaki's box is done, will be available soon
Should pick up Mei Fang and run her as 10T unti then
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'); 3,000 pointsjavascript:emoticon('
265 point detachment
), and since I really only play Neverborn, that's all I need 