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I am not certain if there's a thread here for this as the search engine wasn't helping. Anyway, this is for the sake of clarification. For mission number 6, the Relic.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to be a rules lawyer, just the facts as I could not find a passage for it.
Does a player still get the 3VP if this scenario happens.

Scoring unit A gets the Relic and chooses the "sergeant" to carry it.
Scoring unit A passes the Relic to Scoring unit B and passes it to an HQ within the squad.
The entire unit dies except for the HQ carrying the Relic.

If I am not mistaken the HQ becomes part of the scoring unit thus can carry the Relic while he is within the squad however he reverts back to being just a non-scoring independent character once the scoring unit he is in dies. Now reading the BRB the Relic mission only tells me that the relic drops for two reasons alone, if it moved more than 6" or the model carrying it dies. I've ruled out the possibility of the HQ dropping it however I am confused as the the "Seizing" part. Back tracking I seized the Relic with a scoring unit, I also passed it to another legal scoring unit at that time. Do I still get VP for having the Relic at end of the game or:

No I don't get the points as HQ is no longer a scoring unit but the Relic stays with me.
No I don't get the points and the Relic is dropped 1" away.

Thanks in advance for those who could clarify this for me.

Ichiyo1821 wrote:
I am not certain if there's a thread here for this as the search engine wasn't helping. Anyway, this is for the sake of clarification. For mission number 6, the Relic.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to be a rules lawyer, just the facts as I could not find a passage for it.
Does a player still get the 3VP if this scenario happens.

Scoring unit A gets the Relic and chooses the "sergeant" to carry it.
Scoring unit A passes the Relic to Scoring unit B and passes it to an HQ within the squad.
The entire unit dies except for the HQ carrying the Relic.

If I am not mistaken the HQ becomes part of the scoring unit thus can carry the Relic while he is within the squad however he reverts back to being just a non-scoring independent character once the scoring unit he is in dies. Now reading the BRB the Relic mission only tells me that the relic drops for two reasons alone, if it moved more than 6" or the model carrying it dies. I've ruled out the possibility of the HQ dropping it however I am confused as the the "Seizing" part. Back tracking I seized the Relic with a scoring unit, I also passed it to another legal scoring unit at that time. Do I still get VP for having the Relic at end of the game or:

No I don't get the points as HQ is no longer a scoring unit but the Relic stays with me.
No I don't get the points and the Relic is dropped 1" away.

Thanks in advance for those who could clarify this for me.

Seems like he is no longer attached to the squad, no longer part of a scoring unit. Relic would be dropped.

Although attached to the squad, the hq was never a scoring unit and therefore could never have carried the relic to begin with.

The relic would have dropped as soon as unit b was removed.

clively wrote:
Although attached to the squad, the hq was never a scoring unit and therefore could never have carried the relic to begin with.

The relic would have dropped as soon as unit b was removed.

Whilst attached to the squad he's treated as the squad for all rules purposes IIRC.
Rules call them scoring, he'd be scoring too is how I read it.

Soon as the squad dies though, it'd drop like a 10,000 lb bowling ball

The rules say a model in a scoring unit can pick it up and it stays with him until he's dead, nothing says they have to be a scoring unit to hold it, only to pick it up.

This works fine. The relic can only be picked up by or passed to a model in a scoring unit, but nothing in the mission rules says that it's dropped if the model leaves the unit or ceases to be scoring.

Would you still get points if a non-scouring unit is carrying it at the end?

 grendel083 wrote:
Would you still get points if a non-scouring unit is carrying it at the end?

No, as he isnt scoring

Actually, I'm pretty sure you would get points in either case.
"At the end of the game, the Relic is worth 3 Victory Points to the player who has seized it."
As has been pointed out, Scoring is only requirement for picking up the relic or having relic transferred to a model, not for actually carrying the relic.

HWIPI is that Relic is dropped the moment carrying model becomes non-scoring, but that's not RAW.

IT is a objective, it states only scoring units can earn the VP's at the end of the game, so again he would not get the relic VP's

MarkyMark wrote:
IT is a objective, it states only scoring units can earn the VP's at the end of the game, so again he would not get the relic VP's

Page citation required. Page 131 doesn't mention anything like that.

MarkyMark wrote:
IT is a objective, it states only scoring units can earn the VP's at the end of the game, so again he would not get the relic VP's

The Relic itself is a primary mission objective, but not an objective you claim with scoring units. The former can be achieved by any unit save any specifically disallowed, the latter can only be claimed by scoring units.

rigeld2 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
IT is a objective, it states only scoring units can earn the VP's at the end of the game, so again he would not get the relic VP's

Page citation required. Page 131 doesn't mention anything like that.

Page 123, under controlling objectives, 'by controlling more objectives then the enemy at the end of the game and only scoring units can do that.

Page 131, Primary objective, the relic is worth 3 victory points to the player who has seized it.

Therefore he cannot score it as per pg 123, Avatar 720 I dont quite get what you are saying you need to be scoring to pick the relic up as per rules on page 131, you have to be scoring to control the objective as per page 123.

What I'm saying is that a Primary/Secondary Objective is not the same as an objective you claim in the game, otherwise only scoring units would be able to achieve Linebreaker, First Blood and Slay the Warlord, and only Heavy Support choices destroyed by Troops would count in Big Guns Never Tire etc. etc.

An in game objective that you must be within x" of is not the same as a mission objective like Linebreaker.

MarkyMark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
IT is a objective, it states only scoring units can earn the VP's at the end of the game, so again he would not get the relic VP's

Page citation required. Page 131 doesn't mention anything like that.

Page 123, under controlling objectives, 'by controlling more objectives then the enemy at the end of the game and only scoring units can do that.

Page 131, Primary objective, the relic is worth 3 victory points to the player who has seized it.

Therefore he cannot score it as per pg 123, Avatar 720 I dont quite get what you are saying you need to be scoring to pick the relic up as per rules on page 131, you have to be scoring to control the objective as per page 123.

You're equating a basic rule to an advanced rule. The basic rule for objectives is as you said, only scoring units can control them. Really, that should be "primary objectives". The Relic is an advanced rule objective with it's own rules that supersede the standard objective scoring rule.

Factor in this, you don't "control" the relic otherwise if a denial unit was within 3" of your model holding it then you'd not be able to claim VP's for it, but that's not the case as detailed in the mission type. "Controlling Objectives" is the basic rule the blankets all objectives unless overruled by an advance rule. So you should only be going by the rules detailed in the mission type and not the generic "Controlling Objectives" rules, because they don't apply to that mission.

MarkyMark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
IT is a objective, it states only scoring units can earn the VP's at the end of the game, so again he would not get the relic VP's

Page citation required. Page 131 doesn't mention anything like that.

Page 123, under controlling objectives, 'by controlling more objectives then the enemy at the end of the game and only scoring units can do that.

Page 131, Primary objective, the relic is worth 3 victory points to the player who has seized it.

By this assertion, only scoring units can get Victory Points for you.

Avatar,I still have no idea what you are saying, every objective based mission lists the objectives as primary do you never use scoring troops to get the objectives?. Secondary objectives are line breaker (which has to be denial or scoring) first blood and slay the warlord


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
IT is a objective, it states only scoring units can earn the VP's at the end of the game, so again he would not get the relic VP's

Page citation required. Page 131 doesn't mention anything like that.

Page 123, under controlling objectives, 'by controlling more objectives then the enemy at the end of the game and only scoring units can do that.

Page 131, Primary objective, the relic is worth 3 victory points to the player who has seized it.

By this assertion, only scoring units can get Victory Points for you.

Bar secondary objectives which are also defined on page 122, kill points and extra VP conditions based on the mission or warlord trait, yes