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Hello,

So, my brother plays Orks, and is planning on running a biker army ( )

I play BA, and was looking for some tips on how to handle a fast, tough list like Ork bikers.

I know he plans to run a 1750 list, something along the lines of

Wazzdakka (or whoever the Biker gy is that unlocks bikes as troops) (with some nob biker guys)
20(ish) bikes (not sure how many squads this will be split into, but presumably they'll be a good number of Nobz in there too)
2 squads of boys in trucks
Burna boys in a Battlewagon (with deff roller)
A squad of Deffkoptas
One of the varients of Ork flier

I was thinking about sticking a termie libby with a termie priest in a Crusader with a squad of Termie Assault dudes, 2 squads of 10 man assault marines (2 flamer special weapons), Sgts with maces (high strength to go toe-to-toe with high toughness). Stromraven with Furioso dread (frag cannon & heavy flamer) and 2 vindicators.

Obviously I've gone for high strength weapons and templates. The only major downside is that the list only has 2 troops, and he'll probably have more

I considered a similar Dante-wing list for lots of 2+ armour saves (taking the same role as the termies),only other major difference was 1 vindi and 1 dev squad (4 ML).

So, any tips or thoughts on how I should take on this challenge.

D

Mephiston will take bikers to the cleaners - strength 10 will instant death 4-5 of them a round on average and with wings and fleet he can consistently get the charge on them. Charge an assault squad in at the same time and use the sarge to keep mephy out of a challenge.

azala wrote:
Mephiston will take bikers to the cleaners - strength 10 will instant death 4-5 of them a round on average and with wings and fleet he can consistently get the charge on them. Charge an assault squad in at the same time and use the sarge to keep mephy out of a challenge.

that could work quite well against nob bikers actually, I would urge you to be cautious though because typical nob squads have cybork bodys and a few normal nobz mixed in with power klaw nobz, so most likely he'll just shrug the instant death goodness off on the expendibles and then turn around and slap you with 15 power klaw attacks. So just be sure the squad is weak before you go in for the kill.

Dantewing would be tricky. If you're not careful you'll find your units bogged down in combat and eventually overwhelmed by numbers. A better bet would be to mech up. Vindicators and Baals will do well and if you can afford one, a land raider crusader to keep those troops safe.

Right, so this is a Warbiker army, NOT a Nob Biker army?

I've rarely seen that, actually.

In that case, you're only worrying about one powerklaw per warbiker group. They are very fast, all have 4+ saves, and will *always* have a 4+ cover save.

Since the majority of them only have one wound, large amounts of shots will help. Just remember that they are toughness 5, and Wazdakka is toughness 6 (so no instant death for him). Mephiston will clear out the lesser ones, but should watch out for Wazdakka, who will be a huge threat.

As for the trukks, just direct your most specialized anti-vehicle towards them, and work your way down your av weapons list until they are immobilized and/or stunned.

As for Deffkoptas - if you can kill one, you're forcing a leadership test. They are tougher in 6th, you just need two wounds to get through - they still only have Ld7.

As for the flier? Aegis Defense Line will help loads - particularly considering it will help agaisnt orks in general. All ork fliers are armour 10, so strength 7 and up will be a large threat to it.

And the Burna Wagon! Two hints:

*The burna boyz can only fire their weapons if the wagon has not moved more than 6".
*If outside the wagon, burna boyz tend to evaporate quickly.
*IF he includes meks, he may be able to repair lost hull points - so hope for a lucky pen to get through. Remember, it's open topped, so you get +1 on the damage chart. Go for side armour for that armour 12, or if you can manage it, hit the armour 10 rear.

First priority is putting your hard hitting anti-vehicle against the trukks, while putting everything else onto the bikers.

Second priority is putting what you can spare into the Deffkoptas. You just need to kill one at least. If they have rokkits - they will be a big threat to your armour 10-12 vehicles. Otherwise, they aren't as frightening.

Use Mephiston to jump into units of Bikers who do NOT have Wazdakka. Challenge the nob, and clean up. Remember though - even though he's tough, high quantity of attacks are still likely to get through your saves.

Start targeting the Battlewagon in your second turn, if you've not had anything left over in your first turn. Even better, toss a walker towards it - that generally deals with the problem. Flanking is the best way to deal with it - and immobilized results help tremendously, particularly seeing that is has a deffrolla.

Also, put flamers into your units - about three will do wonders against orks trying to assault you. Though not as great against the bikers (you'll likely kill one), it plays havoc with normal boyz trying to assault. Blender dreads are great as well - and since you're combating normal warbikers, all the more usefull. Again, remember to watch out for those single powerklaws though.

Thanks for the input everyone!

So are we saying Meph is a must?

Okay, I've put together a list, but it's more infantry heavy than going for vehicles etc.

I think I'm going to try and alpha strike then keep him on the back foot.

here's the list

HQ
Meph

Elites
Priest
JP
PW (Mace)

Sternguard (7 Man)
5 x combi (3/2 mix of melta and flamer)
2 x H. Flamer
Droppod

Sternguard (7 Man)
5 x combi (3/2 mix of melta and flamer)
2 x H. Flamer
Droppod

Troops
Assault Squad (10 man)
Melta/Flamer
PW (Mace)

Troops
Assault Squad (10 man)
Melta/Flamer
PW (Mace)

Fast
Vanguard Vets (5 man)
JPs
5 Maces
Strom Shield on the sgt

Heavy
Stormraven

Stern 1 appear first turn, they can melta some vehicles, H.Flamers will negate the cover and armour saves of the bikes

Also the thinking with the sternguard is the poison ammo (2+), since they're always going to have saves against shooting I thought i'd try to saturate them with wounds and have they fail enough to make it worth while.

and go from there... gave the vanguard (and sgts) maces for the exrtra S, but they'll still be hitting first. Considered double flamer on the assault squads, but went melta/flamer in the end. Stromraven with it's blood strike missles will hopefully be able to take out the Ork flier as it's only armour 10.

I couldn't make a tank list work, I think I'd ratehr have more bodies...besides I've got a 1/6 change that the Vanguard (or even Raven might become scoring).


What do you think?

D

This isn't a bad list. For the Sternguard though, use Dragonfire bolts instead of Hellfire. That'll negate both the normal armour save AND Jink thanks to ignoring cover saves.

 Super Ready wrote:
This isn't a bad list. For the Sternguard though, use Dragonfire bolts instead of Hellfire. That'll negate both the normal armour save AND Jink thanks to ignoring cover saves.

Bikers have a 4+ armour don't they? And they get 4+ cover from the smoke/dust cloud rule they have, So they'll stil get the armour save from the Dragonfire. I can't see a way around both saves except H.Flamers which is why I've packed 2 in each squad. Like I say, the idea behind the poison is to saturate the squads with wounds and hope they fail enough to be worth it.

Is the flat out +1 to the cover save making it 3+ or is it just 4+ all the time now with the jink rule...If it's +1 good call, I'd totally forgotten about that.

Dragonfire is the top choice for units in cover though.

Just to check I can;t up Metp in a pod and then separate him when they land, can I?

D

It's 5+ for Jink, increased to 4+ when Turbo Boosting... but Ignores Cover gets around both anyway.
But, if they do have a 4+ save (no Codex Orks here), then it's a moot point anyway. In which case - Heavy Flamers are a damn good idea.

Warbikers get a 4+ cover save so when they turboboost it will be 3+

flaming tadpole wrote:
Warbikers get a 4+ cover save so when they turboboost it will be 3+

Wait - how is that so?

Jink is 5+ if moved, 4+ if flat out. They don't get cumulative to their normal cover save. They don't get better than 4+ if they turbo boost.

Kharrak's correct, Jink (oage 38) states that a 4+ save applies *instead* if you move flat-out or turbo-boost. It replaces the 5+ - it doesn't give you a +1 to any and all cover-saves.