Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
This is not a post about how vegetarian is better, just read it.
I just got done eating a delicious vegetarian burger. Now, I love meat, but I decided to try the veggie burger from the cafeteria.
I like vegetarian food. This got me wondering. Why dont people try it more often? Why do people shrug of vegetarian food for meat?
I think its because the word "vegetarian" ha gotten synonymous with "Obnoxious fools" and that those options are only there for them.
Anyone else got any ideas?

I eat plenty of non animal based foods. I just had a carrot.

It took a while for manufacturers to figure out that vegetarians *don't* want stuff that tastes like meat. Nice vegetarian food is gorgeous.

And the things you can do with cheeses...oh my.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Really, an omnivorous diet is the healthiest option, since you get the goodness of fruit and vegetables as well as that of fish and meat.

Going to either extreme just serves to cut you off from the goodness of what you don't eat, and requires the use of vitamin supplements or food with all sorts of added things, to the point where it's less food with added vitamins and more vitamins with added food.

A completely plant-based diet might be more sustainable (so long as the staple plants can keep up with demand as well as being hardy enough to put up with extreme weather and shifts in weather patterns), but it's not the healthiest option at all.

The Mayo Clinic would beg to differ.

Mayo Clinic


A completely vegetarian diet is viable, and far more sustainable than "extreme weather" animals..... I mean really, the animals we eat are fed vast amounts of corn we have to grow. It takes huge quantities of resources and space to grow a cow, pig, chicken, or turkey to be ready for slaughter, all of which are even more dependent on the weather - because their food is grown in a single place in the world - growing only 2 types of plants that deplete the earth of its resources and are not being cycled because it's not profitable to the farmers who have to buy into the system. Instead they simply just buy what the industry tells them because that's where the market is. They dump vast quantities of chemical fertilizer on ground that if it was cycled, wouldn't need it and buy GMO plants that have not been tested for safety and are even forced to destroy their own seed if it is not the company's. If you live in the midwest you would know, the US only grows two types of plants here. Corn, and Soy, which are made into feed, solvents, and high fructose syrups. Furthermore, meat's are literally chocked full of hormones, carry the pesticides of industrial farm feed, and other chemicals that are not regulated by the FDA. Unless you are buying locally, or from a CSA, there's a significant chance that the meat you eat in the US is not healthy for you or the environment. People wonder why cancer rates are skyrocketing in the US while they remain low in other parts of the world where farming is vastly different... the food we eat is a major reason, and our meat (as delicious as it is) is a massive reason.

^pure veggel propaganda. That clinic knows not of what it speaks. Also, peanuts are great protein and make an awesome snack, as do carrots and strawberries. And fruit salad in general.

There is an Indian restaurant I visit in Albany that has better veggie dishes than chicken dishes. Except the chili chicken. God, that's good. But cauliflower, potatoes and carrots in a coconut-curry sauce and steamed spinach/lentils? Oh man, so amazing. I'm not huge on lentils usually, I'll eat em, but they aren't special. This dish is great though. I could live off of it. Same w/ the veggies in coconut curry. Anyone in Albany, try out Shalimars. It's even a lunch buffet.

 ENOZONE wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Really, an omnivorous diet is the healthiest option, since you get the goodness of fruit and vegetables as well as that of fish and meat.

Going to either extreme just serves to cut you off from the goodness of what you don't eat, and requires the use of vitamin supplements or food with all sorts of added things, to the point where it's less food with added vitamins and more vitamins with added food.

A completely plant-based diet might be more sustainable (so long as the staple plants can keep up with demand as well as being hardy enough to put up with extreme weather and shifts in weather patterns), but it's not the healthiest option at all.

The Mayo Clinic would beg to differ.

Good for them? Doesn't make them right.

 ENOZONE wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Really, an omnivorous diet is the healthiest option, since you get the goodness of fruit and vegetables as well as that of fish and meat.

Going to either extreme just serves to cut you off from the goodness of what you don't eat, and requires the use of vitamin supplements or food with all sorts of added things, to the point where it's less food with added vitamins and more vitamins with added food.

A completely plant-based diet might be more sustainable (so long as the staple plants can keep up with demand as well as being hardy enough to put up with extreme weather and shifts in weather patterns), but it's not the healthiest option at all.

The Mayo Clinic would beg to differ.

I'm sure they would. Not that I'm more of an authority on diet or the body than the Mayo Clinic, but of my personal observations, the vegetarians I have known have shown approximately the same ratio of (fat or grossly underweight)/healthy to non-vegetarians.

As far as sustainable diets go, vegetarianism is only more sustainable because they won't take the Soylent Green option into serious account.

There's a reason farmers destroy their seed, it's because it's no good. In the case of GM it is often because terminator genes make it infertile this is true. But what isn't often pointed out is that normally grown seed isn't collected by farmers. This is because farmers and gardeners tend to grow F1 varieties which are a 50:50 mix of two varieties being cross bred. A box of seed will raise plants that are largely the same and have all the required balance of traits for yield, sweetness, disease resistance, etc. If you collect the seed from these plants that cross with each other, you get the F2 which will be a mix of seed with all different frequencies of different traits. Some will lose alleles for crop quality or disease resistance.

If you cast your mind back to school and recall Mendel's pea plant experiments, he cross bred two different varieties, the F1 produced were all tall plants with white flowers. When these were crossed with each other the F2 produced was a mixed bag of differently sized plants with various colours of flowers. Now imagine those various traits represent things like yield and fruit sweetness and you'll understand why farmers and gardeners don't use them.

 daedalus wrote:

 ENOZONE wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Really, an omnivorous diet is the healthiest option, since you get the goodness of fruit and vegetables as well as that of fish and meat.

Going to either extreme just serves to cut you off from the goodness of what you don't eat, and requires the use of vitamin supplements or food with all sorts of added things, to the point where it's less food with added vitamins and more vitamins with added food.

A completely plant-based diet might be more sustainable (so long as the staple plants can keep up with demand as well as being hardy enough to put up with extreme weather and shifts in weather patterns), but it's not the healthiest option at all.

The Mayo Clinic would beg to differ.

I'm sure they would. Not that I'm more of an authority on diet or the body than the Mayo Clinic, but of my personal observations, the vegetarians I have known have shown approximately the same ratio of (fat or grossly underweight)/healthy to non-vegetarians.

This is because being a fat is pretty much strictly a product of how many calories vs how many you consume, and it's not like being a vegeterian makes you excercise more. Utlimately for every high calorie food say a vegetarian doesn't eat say fried chicken, there is one they are eating like nuts, cheese or avocados. Hell a plate of nachos with guacamole and beans is perfectly vegetarian, it's also extremely fattening.

I'm vegetarian and I'm about 15 stone. I never understood why people assume vegetarians to be skinny and sickly...you know doritos and chocolate is all vegetarian, right?

 Chongara wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
I'd stab my own mother for just about anything made with ground chickpeas.

O.o Priorities man...most of us would choose a nice, bloody steak after offering up a motherly sacrifice. Chickpeas? Wha? Unless we're discussing garlic-lovers hummus. That stuff is the tits on pita bread.

To be honest, I'm not a huge steak person. It's OK, and once in a great while I really get in the mood for it, but I'm really more of a Pork person at heart. In fact beef in general ranks pretty far down on my scale for the most part, way after Pork, Seafood (fried whole-belly clams, anything with tentacles or an exoskeleton, yum!), Chicken and quite a few vegetables & fruits I like.

Sorry, Cows just aren't really my thing.While I do appreciate a nice burger, I'd probably take a patty-shaped felafel on a hamburger bun over a regular burger any day 9 days out of 10.

Just out of curiosity Chongara, what region of the US are you from?? I ask not out of spite, but because I have found that people's tastes in food can depend on the region they grew up in... As in, most Texans will prefer beef, with a side of beef, and a side of baby beef, topped with beef.

Being from the Pacific Northwest, I LOOOOOOVE me some seafood, chicken and beef, with pork products rounding down the list (minus bacon of course)


To the OP, I think that most people have hit it on the head, the substitutes just do not sound appetizing to many people. I make on occasion, a really good Lentil and vegetable soup. There are plenty of vegetarian dishes out there that are not "substitute" foods, you just kinda have to look into different cook books and whatnot.

There aint much I dont eat.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Just out of curiosity Chongara, what region of the US are you from?? I ask not out of spite, but because I have found that people's tastes in food can depend on the region they grew up in... As in, most Texans will prefer beef, with a side of beef, and a side of baby beef, topped with beef.

Ha. The "Whole Belly fried Clams" thing didn't give it away? I'm from New England, specifically MA. I really didn't think anyone ate the things else where in 'mercia. My buddy had a girlfriend from PA and she was shocked to learn that clams were even edible.

 Chongara wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Just out of curiosity Chongara, what region of the US are you from?? I ask not out of spite, but because I have found that people's tastes in food can depend on the region they grew up in... As in, most Texans will prefer beef, with a side of beef, and a side of baby beef, topped with beef.

Ha. The "Whole Belly fried Clams" thing didn't give it away? I'm from New England, specifically MA. I really didn't think anyone ate the things else where in 'mercia. My buddy had a girlfriend from PA and she was shocked to learn that clams were even edible.

Really? I'm from Ohio and I knew they were edible lol.

 Chongara wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Just out of curiosity Chongara, what region of the US are you from?? I ask not out of spite, but because I have found that people's tastes in food can depend on the region they grew up in... As in, most Texans will prefer beef, with a side of beef, and a side of baby beef, topped with beef.

Ha. The "Whole Belly fried Clams" thing didn't give it away? I'm from New England, specifically MA. I really didn't think anyone ate the things else where in 'mercia. My buddy had a girlfriend from PA and she was shocked to learn that clams were even edible.

Ahh... see, I know from being here in the South that Pork is HuUUGE, as apparently that is the only authorized meat for BBQ... I didn't want to assume you were from the south, but kinda did, since I also read the seafood, minus the clams thing

Hey now, I like meat as much as the next guy. But there are times when I'd like something different.

When I was at college, we had a "field day" sponsored by the school. It was a meet-and-greet with freshmen and advisors of clubs, etc. They offered burgers, hot dogs, and veggie burgers. While waiting for burgers to cook up, I saw a fresh tray of veggie burgers sitting there. I grabbed a few, and they were awesome.

I still like veggie burgers.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Chongara wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Just out of curiosity Chongara, what region of the US are you from?? I ask not out of spite, but because I have found that people's tastes in food can depend on the region they grew up in... As in, most Texans will prefer beef, with a side of beef, and a side of baby beef, topped with beef.

Ha. The "Whole Belly fried Clams" thing didn't give it away? I'm from New England, specifically MA. I really didn't think anyone ate the things else where in 'mercia. My buddy had a girlfriend from PA and she was shocked to learn that clams were even edible.

Ahh... see, I know from being here in the South that Pork is HuUUGE, as apparently that is the only authorized meat for BBQ...

Hey, and they're right of course. Texas is off it it's rocker, beef is just a waste of smoke.

It's obvious, isn't it? Veggies are healthy, and here in 'Merica, we don't take too kindly to healthy food...

Actually from a health point of view (I don't know if this was brought up, I didn't really read the thread), meat is actually very important. There are a lot of vital proteins that the body needs but can't produce itself, and those proteins can be found in meat. It's possible to get them through vegetables, but you have to mix and match the right veggies to get the right proteins combinations. Simply put, meat is a shortcut to some essential nutrients.

 Locclo wrote:
It's obvious, isn't it? Veggies are healthy, and here in 'Merica, we don't take too kindly to healthy food...

Actually from a health point of view (I don't know if this was brought up, I didn't really read the thread), meat is actually very important. There are a lot of vital proteins that the body needs but can't produce itself, and those proteins can be found in meat. It's possible to get them through vegetables, but you have to mix and match the right veggies to get the right proteins combinations. Simply put, meat is a shortcut to some essential nutrients.

I think you're talking about vitamin D and L-something or another...

My ma is on vegan diet (health reason, not religiously) and she has to take supplements to fill in vitamin deficiencies.

You know, all the talk about curry in this thread...I'm going to go have myself some curried chicken with rice and steamed broccoli for dinner. Delicious and homemade. I'm not sharing!

Curry is awesome. When I first visited London I made a specific point of going out for curry and it did not disappoint.

My kid sister went veggie a few years ago, and in consequence my mom has added some vegetarian choices into her core stable of feast dishes. One of them is this absolutely insane veggie Channa Biryani. It's just killer.

...I do sometimes put some chicken in it, though.

 Chongara wrote:
I think folks are looking at this whole veggie burger thing wrong (including some of the folks making them).

They taste nothing like burgers so it's silly to really call them that, the only thing they have in common is the shape. Of course they're going to be disappointing if you go in expecting something that tastes like meat.

However, I think many stand on their own merits as "Patty-Shaped Vegetable Sandwiches with Cheese and Mushrooms", and should be advertised as such. After all we wouldn't begrudge a grilled cheese sandwich for not being a ham and cheese sandwich.

Two things simply going between bread, and being roughly the same shape isn't really any reason to approach them the same way.

I think the problem is more than expectation, though I agree that probably plays a part. To me its about what's good about vegetarian cuisine, and what's good about meat are basically different things. A hamburger is greasy salty and wonderful for it. But you try to make a veggie burger like that and it's just sad.

But a pan fried field mushroom with a bit of salad is beautiful, because it's bringing out what's best in the mushroom.


Or something, I'm certainly no chef.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
^pure veggel propaganda. That clinic knows not of what it speaks.

No, seriously vegetarian food is way more sustainable. There's really no debate possible on the issue.

I mean, we could probably feed 20 billion people quite easily if we just ate grain, rather than fed the grain to a cow and then ate the cow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Testify wrote:
I'm vegetarian and I'm about 15 stone. I never understood why people assume vegetarians to be skinny and sickly...you know doritos and chocolate is all vegetarian, right?

When I dated a vegetarian I put on weight, because I ate so much more food just to feel full. Even if its a curry or a pasta I'll find I'll eat way more of it before I feel full.

There's definitely something to that idea that protein (ie meat) will stop you feeling hungry, but carbs or whatever else you can just keep going.

For me vegetarian food is really damn hit or miss, if i can i avoid it but my seven years of culinary training (2 years was professional) will not allow me to avoid it, I've made some killer Ratatouille before, and one thing that a friend of mine told me was a vegetarian shepherds pie..... yeah i heard that and almost barfed, then they told me that you pretty much substitute the beef with beans or lentils soaked in a gak load of beer and mix it with BBQ sauce. But in all honesty some decorative green bullgak will never be able to replace a good roast or wild game chilli (elk, moose or venison)

I'll eat vegetables/fruits in place of meat on a regular bases.

Though. like everything else I eat, I base it on taste.

If I eat a salad, it has to be made to my liking. Iceberg lettuce, tomatoes and ranch dressing is not a salad. It's what that over weight girl brings into work from January 1st to January 7th, then goes back to fried chicken.

Why? because its disgusting.

red leaf lettuce, spinach leaves, carrots, cucumbers, croutons, onions, mushrooms, olives, vine ripe tomatoes and home made dressing. Preferably raspberry vinaigrette.

A salad to me is iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, radishes, onions, cucumber, and maybe some egg if I want to make it an egg salad. Follow that up with a good quality balsamic vinaigrette and perhaps a dollop of mayo or salad cream.

Can also add pasta to it for a pasta salad, and prawns for a prawn pasta salad, maybe some cans of fish for other types. Not only is it a great salad, it's also a great base for other dishes.

I like a nice Bulgarian salad. Plum tomatoes and european-style cucumbers are the bulk, with some chopped green bell pepper and finely-diced shallots, a dressing of a little light oil and red wine vinegar (or balsamic), and some herb salt. Traditionally it's also got some feta cheese, which my wife loves, but I'm not partial to.

Serve with rakia.

 Chongara wrote:
After all we wouldn't begrudge a grilled cheese sandwich for not being a ham and cheese sandwich.

I have been thrown out of places for trying to yell grilled cheese into ham and cheese.

I dont mind veggie food really. Even as a fairly committed carnivore, I try to eat a veggie diet for one day a week. Its the curse of having regular Nutrition Courses as part of my job!

But that does not mean I don't crave a 16oz T-Bone with home cut fries and blue cheese sauce during my enforced once weekly meat abstinence, I just try not to think about it too much....

Everyone complains about preachy vegetarians but I don't buy it. I'm a vegetarian and I've met next-to-no self-righteous hippy vegan types.

On the contrary, it's rare to mention you're a vegetarian without prompting some insulting comment, if you're around people you don't know well.

-"No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
-"What, why? You know you need protein! You'll starve yourself!"

-"I'll take a black bean burger."
-"Mmmmm, I love the way this bloody beef burger tastes! Nothin' beats dead baby cow!"

-"Can you make one of the pizzas a cheese? I'm a vegetarian."
-"Can you get a triple meat supreme too? I don't eat anything not made with dead animals."

It gets tiresome.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
This is not a post about how vegetarian is better, just read it.
I just got done eating a delicious vegetarian burger.

How much protein was in that burger? As I'm actively working out, I try to have protein with every lunch and dinner and most breakfasts.

the color purple wrote:
Everyone complains about preachy vegetarians but I don't buy it. I'm a vegetarian and I've met next-to-no self-righteous hippy vegan types.

On the contrary, it's rare to mention you're a vegetarian without prompting some insulting comment, if you're around people you don't know well.

-"No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
-"What, why? You know you need protein! You'll starve yourself!"

-"I'll take a black bean burger."
-"Mmmmm, I love the way this bloody beef burger tastes! Nothin' beats dead baby cow!"

-"Can you make one of the pizzas a cheese? I'm a vegetarian."
-"Can you get a triple meat supreme too? I don't eat anything not made with dead animals."

It gets tiresome.

This. Entirely this.

"Dead animals are so tasty omg!!!!"

Wow you're such a man. It's a wonder I can bench what you weigh and you can barely open a tin of beans, huh?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
This is not a post about how vegetarian is better, just read it.
I just got done eating a delicious vegetarian burger.

How much protein was in that burger? As I'm actively working out, I try to have protein with every lunch and dinner and most breakfasts.

Depends. If it's a conventional veggie burger, feth all. But some (thinking Linda McCartney) are packed full of protein. As a vegetarian who works out, the protein content of vegetarian food is something of a speciality for me.