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This Kickstarter has so much potential - and not just for Wallet Destroying either!

I'm looking forward to what the 3 to 5 more big Monster expansions could bring, as well as the unlockables we get along the way.

Onward and upward to one million and beyond!

If anyone is interested in seeing some pictures to compare plastics and resin, I've edited my post on page 10. If anyone got any questions regarding these, I'll try my best to try to answer them.

grefven wrote:
If anyone is interested in seeing some pictures to compare plastics and resin, I've edited my post on page 10. If anyone got any questions regarding these, I'll try my best to try to answer them.

Thank you for those comparison pictures!

It looks like the biggest issue is on thin weapons, so it is a good thing that Adam seems aware of this:

 kingdomdeath wrote:


The Twilight Knight Sword is ultra slim. Like 0.4mm thick where a normal mini sword is closer to 1mm or even 1.5 in the center. I didn't alter it because I wanted to see how it would turn out so I could adjust future designs for the material.

That being said, If I can manage it, I'd like to have all the weapons made in a harder plastic. Maybe ABS, while the organic body parts would be PVC.

Thin weapons and fine details are the major issues. Fingers, faces, buttons, etc. Again, not a big issue for gamers, but quite the difference for painters/collectors.

I have no doubt that Adam Poots will sort this out. He is putting quality first and foremost. It would surprise me greatly if he sent out products to thousands of people that he isn't satisfied with.

grefven wrote:
Alright, gonna try this. Dont hang me if it doesn't work.

Sorry, I couldn't get the images to work directly here in the forum, so I have to link them to a free imagehosting server.

These are a few comparison shots between plastic and resin. I apology for the poor images, but I've done my best.

I'll try to break the biggest difference down in word, too, to illuminate the differences even further.

Plastic left, resin right. The biggest difference is the sharpness of the details. None of the details have been lost in the plastics, but they aren't as sharp or clear. The studs on the belt, the snirkly thingies on the breasts are very soft, as are the very edges of the armours, in particular the boots.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/ovha3

Plastic left, resin right. Same thing as with the picture above. The studs on the belt and the sharpness of the armour being the main differences.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/lduwm

Resin left, plastic right. This is the picture where the differences really come out. The resin (this time on the left for some reason) has really crisp and clear details on the face. You can see how sharp the eyes, nose, mouth, etc. are on the resin, while on the plastic it is very soft and unclear. On the resin (not visable on the photo, though) you can see the eyes on both sides of the nose, while on the plastics, the eye concealed beneath the hood is very bad. Another big difference is the hair, where the resin show clear "brads" and "cuts" (whatever it's called in English) over the entire hair, while on the plastics they aren't visible at all.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/z7a1k

Plastic left, resin right. Here you can see the problems with the extremely thin parts. The plastic sword is messy, round edges and have warped in all directions (up, down, right, left) while the resin is in better shape with a lot better details. You can also see it on the hands, where the resin clearly show the different fingers while the plastic doesn't. Same thing with the hilt.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/pykhy

All in all, obviously the plastic is good enough for gaming. The plastic is quite stiff (apart from the thinest of the sword which is extremely bendy and easy to snap) and can take a drop without breaking, where as the resin too is stiff, but it breaks much easier than the plastics, and shouldn't be used for gaming at all.

Grefven, this is amazingly helpful, thanks! If I can get on my PC later I'll post them directly in the thread, or maybe someone else will beat me to it.

The 3rd and 4th images are rather concerning............

Again, not really, as Adam has already said he's aware of the issue and is taking steps to ensure that it isn't one going forward.

I think?

 RiTides wrote:

grefven wrote:

Plastic left, resin right. Here you can see the problems with the extremely thin parts. The plastic sword is messy, round edges and have warped in all directions (up, down, right, left) while the resin is in better shape with a lot better details. You can also see it on the hands, where the resin clearly show the different fingers while the plastic doesn't. Same thing with the hilt.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/pykhy

All in all, obviously the plastic is good enough for gaming. The plastic is quite stiff (apart from the thinest of the sword which is extremely bendy and easy to snap) and can take a drop without breaking, where as the resin too is stiff, but it breaks much easier than the plastics, and shouldn't be used for gaming at all.

Grefven, this is amazingly helpful, thanks! If I can get on my PC later I'll post them directly in the thread, or maybe someone else will beat me to it.

The 3rd and 4th images are rather concerning............

Agreed. The 4th image especially.

Still concerning... I would like to see a test piece showing better quality than that face. Weapons done in another material makes sense, but what about hands, etc...

Just raising questions that I HOPE will be answered. That's what this discussion is for, I think. Hard to spend several hundred on faith when the experiment he did shows a quality in facial features (3rd pic) that I would not be pleased with.

He DID sell the Experiment if Death. Despite it being named such, this is the process to be used. Will it be improved? If so, How?

Total agree with whats being said, the quality has totally faded out when transitioned to plastic, unless it gets 'enchanced' somehow I'll pull my pledge before the end, given today's gaming standards we know that plastic can have far better detail than that...

I can understand your concerns, but the plastic vs. resin comparison shots we've seen so far combined with Adam's assertion that he's aware of the issue and is on it plus the fact that this game doesn't ship until November 2013 mean... I'm OK with it!

Still, I suspect we'll see more on this from Adam sooner rather than later anyway.

I'd rather see all models be made from ABS plastic as I can then use a single type of glue.

I'm just going to slide this in here because I deem it relevant.



Since I know there are other Dark Souls fans excited by this Kickstarter. One of Meatbun's latest shirts. Checkitout.

In other comments... the site has been wigging out on me. So I can't really check progress.

When are we going to see more Gameplay information?! The models are gorgeous but it's that hopeless struggle that has me all jazzed up.

What just happened?

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:

When are we going to see more Gameplay information?! The models are gorgeous but it's that hopeless struggle that has me all jazzed up.

I beleive the main KD KS page lists "December 4th" as the Gameplay Video unveiling day...

And.. they're all already dead, or destined to die, right? The text of the highest two pledge levels certainly makes it seem so.

Awesome, and creepy-awesome too!

Picked up the preacher pinup a few days ago, planning on using it as an inquisitor for my grey knights!

The Challenges of Digitally Sculpting & How the final print translates to plastic :

I want to bring focus to one of the challenges I face while art directing, working with digital sculptors. Not to say just working with them is the hard part at all, but when you take into consideration that their background 99% of the time is in the video game industry and that their tool of choice ( usually zbrush ) you end up with a very real and sometimes hard to solve disconnect.

A good miniature has just the right amount of exaggeration. The folds in their cloak are deep and heavy, the layers between the fabric are nice and chunky and the features of their face are deep and readable from a birds eye tabletop view. Hand sculptors that specialize in the craft, know all of this. However a digital sculptor is not used to this challenge and it really is a challenge when you have an art director like me on your back saying "no no, the belt needs to be thicker! not bigger, but like they are wearing a tire. the current detail is so thin it would barely print let alone be seen!"

The Pinup Twilight Knight was the 2nd digital model I ever directed. This was... 3 years ago? I remember how much push back the artist gave me when I told him how BIG the studs on her belt had to be! He said, "man this looks awful, its SOOO BIIG".

Her Sword looked huge and it came out all-right in resin. Resin being very forgiving and able to handle very slim parts. But as you can see the PVC version is down right crappy. I've debated recasting just that part in metal to add to the experiment of death box, which you are totally right. It was an experiment. I needed to invest and gain not just a working relationship with the vendor, but also learn up front and personally as much as possible in regards to the process.

So really the issue here is NOT the material, it was not understanding the limits of the material. The Pinup Twilight Knight was not designed for PVC. The New armor kits I am presenting, have been.

I till think a different material would be better suited for weapons, but we'll see what I can do. It sucks to just out right say it, but the more cash the better I can make everything. Since I am not factoring in retail yet, the cost to produce each box can be much higher since I am not factoring in distribution.

Tho, there is some danger in that because the end retail price of the box might have to be something crazy like $120-$150 if it costs a ludicrous amount to make each one. I am not running the project to get rich and I want to reinvest as much of the raised money into the product as possible. Haha, it would be nice to be able to pay myself at least a min wage salary for the last few years tho!

Objectively their is almost no loss of detail in thows Resin Vs. Plastic comparison shots, witch is pretty impressive. Mostly the biggest differences is that the details have became "softer" in the plastic. Witch is to be expected.

It's only that sword that was a issue, but as you said that sword was never meant for PVC.

The fact that we can get resin collectors versions of the models for us painters is awesome.
=)

 RiTides wrote:
And.. they're all already dead, or destined to die, right? The text of the highest two pledge levels certainly makes it seem so.

Yeah, the vibe (and let me tell you it's a very good vibe) I'm getting from this is that these are guys and gals waking up to some kind of afterlife. This of course fits with the name Kingdom Death, and those eyes covered in black ink gets me thinking of some kind of ritual burial.

My interpretation is also that the lantern represents the human soul, so these "survivors" are people that somehow clung to their soul through the passage of death. Perhaps those stone faces covering the ground are people that lost their souls? Lanterns as souls would also make that creepy Watcher fellow some kind of soul... collector?

There also seems to be something going on with some of the monsters looking like they are composed of human body parts, and the survivors in turn using body parts of the monsters to arm themselves. Thoughts on this?

All in all, very awesome stuff!

Trodax wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
And.. they're all already dead, or destined to die, right? The text of the highest two pledge levels certainly makes it seem so.

Yeah, the vibe (and let me tell you it's a very good vibe) I'm getting from this is that these are guys and gals waking up to some kind of afterlife. This of course fits with the name Kingdom Death, and those eyes covered in black ink gets me thinking of some kind of ritual burial.

My interpretation is also that the lantern represents the human soul, so these "survivors" are people that somehow clung to their soul through the passage of death. Perhaps those stone faces covering the ground are people that lost their souls? Lanterns as souls would also make that creepy Watcher fellow some kind of soul... collector?

There also seems to be something going on with some of the monsters looking like they are composed of human body parts, and the survivors in turn using body parts of the monsters to arm themselves. Thoughts on this?

All in all, very awesome stuff!

Reading the description of "The scrib" kinda sheds some light on the world.

The Scribe is the power behind the Kings and their armies. To men, he is a god made flesh, appearing in repose atop his throne with his tome hoisted by a grotesque tableau of slaves. In his book his words are writ into reality, sewing the seeds of small human settlements into existence with the stroke of his quill. Once the humans grow and reproduce the Scribe will return to harvest his crop.

Humans in this world sort of appear out of thin air with nothing but each other. Reading descriptions of the game you notice some of the innovations your settle meant comes up with are as simple as concepts as Family ties, and even language. They are sort of born into this world as nothing but animals at the bottom of a food chain, and must struggle to survive. But the irony is that by growing, they are just becoming ripe for the Kings to harvest their settlement.

Then when you read the descriptions of the Sun-stalker and "Holy Lands" you realize many humans who are able to advoid this fate by being under stronger monsters and entities for protection. (Despite the fact the deal kinda sucks for the humans in the end as their effectively slaves. But atleast their alive for now right?) But even then the horrors don't end their, as you have the forsakers and butchers. Some humans bassicly lose their "humanity" for the power to survive. But become the monsters that now hunt their former kin.

It kinda shows just how dark and desperate these people are.

It's sort of like you are living during the events of a creation myth.

 kingdomdeath wrote:

I till think a different material would be better suited for weapons, but we'll see what I can do. It sucks to just out right say it, but the more cash the better I can make everything. Since I am not factoring in retail yet, the cost to produce each box can be much higher since I am not factoring in distribution.

Tho, there is some danger in that because the end retail price of the box might have to be something crazy like $120-$150 if it costs a ludicrous amount to make each one. I am not running the project to get rich and I want to reinvest as much of the raised money into the product as possible. Haha, it would be nice to be able to pay myself at least a min wage salary for the last few years tho!

Have you tried contacting Wargames Factory? After seeing what Mark was able to accomplish with them on his sculpts for the Dreamforge Games KS project, maybe they can provide an alternative in good, cheap plastic production?
Or, what about Reaper and their Bones material? Reaper has done a lot of contract work in the past on metals (Star Trek and Legend of the Five Rings, for examples), so maybe they can do the same for you with Bones?

Trodax and Lockark- that is some great speculation guys, and that awesome-creepy-mysterious vibe is why I'm going to be a part of this almost no matter what.

But as Tanner asks, I really do hope to hear/see some solutions to the quality issues!

These are the two that I think show what needs to be addressed:




These two not as much:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 kingdomdeath wrote:

I till think a different material would be better suited for weapons, but we'll see what I can do. It sucks to just out right say it, but the more cash the better I can make everything. Since I am not factoring in retail yet, the cost to produce each box can be much higher since I am not factoring in distribution.

Tho, there is some danger in that because the end retail price of the box might have to be something crazy like $120-$150 if it costs a ludicrous amount to make each one. I am not running the project to get rich and I want to reinvest as much of the raised money into the product as possible. Haha, it would be nice to be able to pay myself at least a min wage salary for the last few years tho!

Have you tried contacting Wargames Factory? After seeing what Mark was able to accomplish with them on his sculpts for the Dreamforge Games KS project, maybe they can provide an alternative in good, cheap plastic production?
Or, what about Reaper and their Bones material? Reaper has done a lot of contract work in the past on metals (Star Trek and Legend of the Five Rings, for examples), so maybe they can do the same for you with Bones?

Considering he has said he wants to keep things in America, I doubt he'd want to work with WGF.

Reaper isn't set up for US Bones production yet, and won't be until sometime next year.

I didn't think he was using a US caster, though? He mentioned it being the same as that used for Privateer Press and Super Dungeon Explore, and I didn't think those were manufactured in the US.

 RiTides wrote:
I didn't think he was using a US caster, though? He mentioned it being the same as that used for Privateer Press and Super Dungeon Explore, and I didn't think those were manufactured in the US.

I figured he was referring to Valiant.

My commitment is to bring about the highest quality experience possible. The brand has been built upon that and that will not change. I would not run a campaign to raise funds for productions unless I was confident about every aspect of the project.

The Pinup Twilight Knight is extremely finely detailed miniature, much finer then standard "chunky" miniatures, her face in particular is extremely faint and the experiment was to see how it would turn out in PVC. She does not accurately represent the future of the range because I created it to learn from it. All of the game components greatly benefited from the knowledge gained and have been improved from the very genesis of their design.

I am in communication with Ed of Trollforged, currently we are going over logistics and he is preparing some samples for me to evaluate. That is all I can share about that at this time.

If anyone has any more specific concerns, please feel free to contact me directly, either thru the PM system here or via the kickstarter. I get a lot of messages! But I will respond to them all!

Man...this looks really tempting!

Gonna give it a bit longer to get some moolah for the game and the extras that roll in!

EDIT: Man, I live near the Warstore and kingdomdeath is just two counties away...I must really live in miniatures heaven!

blah, assuming i can finish up christmas shopping under budget, it looks like another kickstarter i'm gonna have to jump in on

 greenskin lynn wrote:
blah, assuming i can finish up christmas shopping under budget, it looks like another kickstarter i'm gonna have to jump in on

Not only that, but it's a really nice bunch of models; appears to be on the road to a 1 million plus backing, maybe as much as the Bones kickstarter.

 kingdomdeath wrote:
My commitment is to bring about the highest quality experience possible. The brand has been built upon that and that will not change. I would not run a campaign to raise funds for productions unless I was confident about every aspect of the project.

The Pinup Twilight Knight is extremely finely detailed miniature, much finer then standard "chunky" miniatures, her face in particular is extremely faint and the experiment was to see how it would turn out in PVC. She does not accurately represent the future of the range because I created it to learn from it. All of the game components greatly benefited from the knowledge gained and have been improved from the very genesis of their design.

As expected with Adam Poots and his Kingdom Death, this is a great statement. As I've stated earlier in this thread, there is a difference between the plastics and the resin. However, knowing how Adam feels about quality and where he wants to bring Kingdom Death. Even if there is an issue right now, I am quite confident that every issue will be addressed in the highest professional manner that is possible. Adam will not ship out products that he cannot stand for - in all possible ways, artistic included as well as quality-wise.