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 devilution wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:
Would you need to pay an import tax though? I can only speak for the UK as i dont know other countries laws but here you would only pay tax on something you buy, which is not what you do with kickstarter. Kickstarter gives you free rewards (or gifts) in exchange for the money they need to make the project happen - i havnt bought anything. Now since tax is charged at 20% of what it cist me 20% of nithing is still nothing.

I guess a lot will depend on how they ship it, but in my mind this is a gift and should be free from tax ( in the UK at least)

Belgium is a horrible country when it comes to mailservices and import taxes.

1.If you send it as a gift you don't have to pay taxes if the value is lower then 45 Euro (about 65USD).
2.If you send it as a non-gift it the following rule. If the VAT on the object would be worth more then 22 EURO you have to pay, since BE customs sayt here is not VAT on US products (since they don't pay VAT I think?, different system) You have to pay an extra 22%

For example you buy goods worth 100EUR you pay 122EUR. + 20 Administration cost from the belgian postal service (extra rip off).
If you are unlucky I think there is even a 6% or maybe 15% import tax, it only applies to some goods or the goodwill of the custom services (which they don't have lol).

Indeed, other contries will have their own rules, but I do think kickstarter stuff should be sent as a gift - despite many people using it as a shop Kickstarter themselves clearly state that it is not a shop and any goods are a gift. If gifts in your country are free of tax then you shouldn't really pay tax on anything you get via kickstarter - atleast thats what I think, but as always it'll depend on how it is packaged and on the opinion of the individual custom officer who deals with it.

I'm going to plan on paying the full import tax - but I hope that it won't be required.

Zombicide was sent as a gift, a sneaky one at that with a lower overall total value on the customs slip, something some of the American backers did not approve of one bit.

Well, I guess the value declared on Zombicide might have been the value of the items to the sender. As in closer to what CMON paid for the goods than what a consumer might pay at retail.

There are varying levels of "value", after all. When GW imports product into places like Australia, the stock is valued (for customs) at a tiny fraction of what it will eventually retail for, as a sale from GWUK to GWAU. (I saw some paperwork many years ago when a friend worked in AU Trade, and I assume it's much the same today.)

That value will be far different to what the wholesale price would be, and different again to the RRP. All of which are valid, but different "values" to the same products.

Stranger83 wrote:
Not according to kickstarter its not. Im not meanimg you cant think of it as a shop but if you thought a spoon was a knife it doesn't make it one, even if it can be used as one if you wish.

The point is kickstarter are very clear they are not a shop - and that the rewards are a gift given for your help in making the project a reality. If it is just a free reward then it shouldn't be taxed, according to UK law as it stands at the moment. Obviously it'll depend on how they ship the stuff - if they include an invoice and send it marked as sold goods then it'll get taxed, but I think it could just as legitimately be sent as a gift with an insert that says something like "thanks very much for your help in making the project a reality, please find enclosed your agreed gift" in which case it would not be taxed.

Edited it make it sound a little less confruntational.

So you would, honestly, tell me that you would think it was alright if Adam Poots, at the end of the KS, tells everyone thanks for the support but that he will not ship any of the "gifts". Because if you are just happy to support the project then what difference would it make?

No, I am sorry, but I believe that most people demand that they get the goods for which they pledged for.

The thing with Kickstarter, at least as it applies to our miniatures gaming projects is that it straddles the line between "make it happen" (or make more of it happen, faster) and pre-order. Pretty much all of the projects do this, so despite the "it's about supporting the artists" crowd, it's also about pre-orders.

There's a lot of other stuff like that on KS, and it seems that the "donations, not purchases" clause must be to some degree at least to insulate Kickstarter itself legally as a go-between for when people occasionally disappear without a word after taking in $80k.

For us though, we are helping the creators to make more toys, but if it walks like a duck...

grefven wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:
Not according to kickstarter its not. Im not meanimg you cant think of it as a shop but if you thought a spoon was a knife it doesn't make it one, even if it can be used as one if you wish.

The point is kickstarter are very clear they are not a shop - and that the rewards are a gift given for your help in making the project a reality. If it is just a free reward then it shouldn't be taxed, according to UK law as it stands at the moment. Obviously it'll depend on how they ship the stuff - if they include an invoice and send it marked as sold goods then it'll get taxed, but I think it could just as legitimately be sent as a gift with an insert that says something like "thanks very much for your help in making the project a reality, please find enclosed your agreed gift" in which case it would not be taxed.

Edited it make it sound a little less confruntational.

So you would, honestly, tell me that you would think it was alright if Adam Poots, at the end of the KS, tells everyone thanks for the support but that he will not ship any of the "gifts". Because if you are just happy to support the project then what difference would it make?

No, I am sorry, but I believe that most people demand that they get the goods for which they pledged for.

I didnt say that, ive pledged at a level that'll get me the free gifts i want, but if Adam did just walk off without giving the models i wouldnt have a come back as i havn't actually bought anything. If a shop doesnt give you something you buy you can claim the money back through the courtsor the payment provider, you wouldnt be able to do so via kickstarter as it isnt a shop. Since it isnt a shop (speaking from a legal point of view, i know many view it as a shop and use it as such) then you should pay tax as, legally, you havnt bought anything.

Alright, I agree. KS isn't a shop from a legal point of view.

Sadly (for the UK at least) it wouldn't matter what Adam declared the stuff as, gift or commercial item as from the HMRC website

2.2 Do I have to pay import duties and/or import VAT on goods sent to me?

Most goods arriving in the UK from outside the EU are liable to any or all of the following taxes:
■ customs duty
■ excise duty (fortunately boardgames seem to be zero rated at present)
■ import VAT

and must be paid whether:
■ you purchase the goods or receive them as a gift
■ the goods are new or used (including antiques)
■ the goods are for your private use or for re-sale

taken from http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&propertyType=document&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000014

Which was my point, legally you dont pay tax on a gift (in the UK) and legally this is a gift, so logicaly you shouldnt pay tax on things that come via kickstarter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Sadly (for the UK at least) it wouldn't matter what Adam declared the stuff as, gift or commercial item as from the HMRC website

2.2 Do I have to pay import duties and/or import VAT on goods sent to me?

Most goods arriving in the UK from outside the EU are liable to any or all of the following taxes:
■ customs duty
■ excise duty (fortunately boardgames seem to be zero rated at present)
■ import VAT

and must be paid whether:
■ you purchase the goods or receive them as a gift
■ the goods are new or used (including antiques)
■ the goods are for your private use or for re-sale

Wow, that must have changed in the last couple of years. I used to regularly get gifts from a relative in Canada and never paid tax. Oh well, guess ive learned my something new for today.

Hello everyone!

We have achieved our 875k goal and the Dragon King Expansion has been upgraded! This means that every copy of the Expansion now comes packed with the Dragon King ( human form ) miniature, additional AI, Hit Location, Resource cards and rules. Even has a man, he stands nearly 12ft tall and will tower over any survivors that challenge him!

Just to be clear, there is nothing additional you need to do in order to get him. If you have pledged for the Dragon King Expansion then you will get the miniature and it's rules.

Yeah, this expansion is awesome. :p

Stranger83 wrote:
Which was my point, legally you dont pay tax on a gift (in the UK) and legally this is a gift, so logicaly you shouldnt pay tax on things that come via kickstarter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Sadly (for the UK at least) it wouldn't matter what Adam declared the stuff as, gift or commercial item as from the HMRC website

2.2 Do I have to pay import duties and/or import VAT on goods sent to me?

Most goods arriving in the UK from outside the EU are liable to any or all of the following taxes:
■ customs duty
■ excise duty (fortunately boardgames seem to be zero rated at present)
■ import VAT

and must be paid whether:
■ you purchase the goods or receive them as a gift
■ the goods are new or used (including antiques)
■ the goods are for your private use or for re-sale

Wow, that must have changed in the last couple of years. I used to regularly get gifts from a relative in Canada and never paid tax. Oh well, guess ive learned my something new for today.

You do have an allowance, for gifts I think it's £32 (it used to be £36), and for purchaces £15 (used to be £16?) based on actual values so small presents would never have had tax to pat

and customs are generally less concerned with personal stuff so a single package is unlikely to attract attention.... but 100+ (guessing what the number of KD boxes coming into the uk will be), somebody will probably 'see' those

The Dragon King's human form is gorgeous!

I don't get the whole freebie part tbh. When I look at the Kingdom death and others. Just being able to get a deduction RRP is good enough for me. Cause in the end they have to make bank or just flip over due to bad judgement or else. Nobody wants that. Also when I see how people are crying about the shipping I don't really get that either.

I have been buying Kingdom Death miniatures since well since it first popped up on my radar and allmost have them all.

It's about 15 dollar shipping for each release I bought (mostly these were 2 miniatures)

Now I can get the box+expansion+all the rest for international shipping fees of 45 dollar. Wich seems awfully cheap in comparison, if I had to buy them later through COMON or Adam's site (or chose to buy em later). Since Adam does not really wholesale I don't see him working together with the kinds of maelstrom anytime soon.

So all in all it's cheaper then retail. You do get free stuff not as much but still there is enough to go around. You got a gakload of options.(bases, extra armor kits and what not) and a relative cheap upfront shipping when you go big. Wich saves you money later on as well. So yeah sounds good to me.

Negatives still no 2nd gameplay movie. This is sad and should been up ages ago. First video was not really high end made so there is no real justifcation for the delay. It does'nt have to be flashy it has be informative. Also why 1 extra pheonix and watcher and those 5 knights. Do I need those for play or is it just added stuff for painting and what not. It seems like HUGE models wich could've gone to a lot better options (for example a free expension regardless of 300$).

Other then that it's perfect.

Just for painting from what I can tell, useless in-game. Which is probably why people are complaining about the lack of freebies for this one, the only real upgrade the game got is completely pointless since you don't need the duplicate models.

I guess you could say the same thing for Sedition Wars, but at least that game has potential to become a wargame later on and is just starting out small for now, in which case the mountain of extra minis you got through that KS will be useful later. Somehow I don't see Kingdom Death doing the same and expanding much beyond the style of game that is Monster, so more unique models would have been good for this one, especially if you're into painting. Of course this is Kingdom Death, so I imagine most people are just delighted that they have a chance to buy the models without fear of them selling out before they can finish the check-out process.

I've dropped my $300 pledge. Nowt to do with the game, company or KS. I just decided to spunk my wad elsewhere.

raven2100 wrote:
I don't get the whole freebie part tbh. When I look at the Kingdom death and others. Just being able to get a deduction RRP is good enough for me. Cause in the end they have to make bank or just flip over due to bad judgement or else. Nobody wants that. Also when I see how people are crying about the shipping I don't really get that either.

I have been buying Kingdom Death miniatures since well since it first popped up on my radar and allmost have them all.

It's about 15 dollar shipping for each release I bought (mostly these were 2 miniatures)

Now I can get the box+expansion+all the rest for international shipping fees of 45 dollar. Wich seems awfully cheap in comparison, if I had to buy them later through COMON or Adam's site (or chose to buy em later). Since Adam does not really wholesale I don't see him working together with the kinds of maelstrom anytime soon.

So all in all it's cheaper then retail. You do get free stuff not as much but still there is enough to go around. You got a gakload of options.(bases, extra armor kits and what not) and a relative cheap upfront shipping when you go big. Wich saves you money later on as well. So yeah sounds good to me.

Negatives still no 2nd gameplay movie. This is sad and should been up ages ago. First video was not really high end made so there is no real justifcation for the delay. It does'nt have to be flashy it has be informative. Also why 1 extra pheonix and watcher and those 5 knights. Do I need those for play or is it just added stuff for painting and what not. It seems like HUGE models wich could've gone to a lot better options (for example a free expension regardless of 300$).

Other then that it's perfect.

You have to also calculate that the higher your pledge total will be the higher your VAT and taxes and additional fees will become. For example, in Sweden, you don't have to pay VAT or tax on packages with a value less than X amount and above that, you'll have to add 25% VAT and on toys another additional 6-7% plus a customs fee. So while I save on shipping by getting them all from this KS, I will lose out on the VAT, tax and customs fee. So on a $300 pledge I will have to pay roughly $400. So the extra $100 I'll have to pay for a big package I could instead get 5-6 orders without needing to pay extra.

Is it just me, or has the pledge-pace picked up considerably in the last day or so?

Looks like it might just be you!





All kidding aside, it does seem to be fairly steady for the last few weeks.

And given where the 'sweet spot' is on this one, I'm not sure how much of a final few days push we'll see either.

The final push will probably be small by comparison.
Then again, i have no doubt it will hit 1 million and that seems like a damn fine achievement.

Starweaver wrote:
The final push will probably be small by comparison.
Then again, i have no doubt it will hit 1 million and that seems like a damn fine achievement.

More than "damn fine" I would think. In the (admittedly comparatively short) history of Kickstarter, only a mere 17 projects have knocked down the magic mark of [Dr. Evil Voice] a Million Dollars!.

http://www.businessinsider.com/17-million-dollar-ideas-on-kickstarter-2012-12?op=1

We did get about 4K in 20 mins once we unlocked the Dragon mage

(folk adding it, or adding it again)

might be why it looked to be flying

How big is the human form of Dragon King going to be? It says he's 12' tall so how does that translate into KD miniature's scale?

People are saying between 70mm and 90mm!

That is if you go with the 35mm = 6 feet tall (more or less) in KD scale...

I am saying 90mm for total height. That is just a guess. I am not an expert on miniature scales but I think it can get confusing because people assume you measure from the bottom to the top of the head. I think the correct way is the bottom to the eyes. So if you assume the 12 ft dragon in human form would be at least 70 mm from bottom to eye level then all that other stuff above the eyes like the headgear/hair could add quite a bit more to the miniature.

Black Friday Special just opened up.

If it's the one in the comments section, that's a Delux Survivor BF special.

That was my BF Survivor that popped up. Been wrestling with spending $400+ on a board game I'd probably never get to play for a while, and having to put $1k in to our car over Christmas pushed me over the edge.

I definitely have some qualms about how up in the air the plastic quality is, but might get back in for just the exclusive survivors and a Flower Knight at the last minute.

A poster "Mason" put up a series of links regarding Object Source Lighting and skintone that I thought I might repost (since I'll never find them otherwise!);

Saw some coments asking for painting tips on OSL. Here are a few links. Added one for fleshtones as well.
http://handcannononline.com/blog/2011/08/05/tutorial-advanced-object-source-lighting/
http://chestofcolors.com/osl-tips-tutorial/
http://www.coolminiornot.com/articles/1328
http://blog.brushthralls.com/?page_id=1916
http://chestofcolors.com/how-to-make-lava-splashes-tutorial/
http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?12630-Hi-Shawn-Classroom-1-for-OSL-TAB
http://paintingmum.blogspot.com/2012/02/imotekh-stormlord-tutorial-and-short.html
http://paintingmum.blogspot.com/2011/07/emperors-sorcerers-new-clothes-tutorial.html
http://chestofcolors.com/how-to-paint-faces/ Hope you find these helpful.

 plastictrees wrote:
That was my BF Survivor that popped up. Been wrestling with spending $400+ on a board game I'd probably never get to play for a while, and having to put $1k in to our car over Christmas pushed me over the edge.

I definitely have some qualms about how up in the air the plastic quality is, but might get back in for just the exclusive survivors and a Flower Knight at the last minute.

I'm kinda wrestling with a similar dilemma but am holding onto my BF Survivor until the last moment. My brother and I don't have the same time available that we used to for this sort of thing. Might be good but no telling when we'd actually play (assuming we liked it).

Good luck in your situation! whichever way you decide to go.