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Going to a tournament in January and here's my list. Took purifier spam to the last tournament these guys held and it went embarassingly well. So i thought id take a less streamlined list this time. I have one question 2 baleflamers and 1 hades or the other way round on my drakes . Normally a no brained to take more hades but at 1250 I'm expecting less mech and fewer flyers so thought the extra infantry killing power would be more use:

Daemon Prince: wings, power armour, lvl 2, black mace, spell familiar 315
Daemon Prince: wings power armour lvl 2 spell familiar 270

15 Cultists: 70
15 Cultists: autoguns 85

Helldrake baleflamer 170
Helldrake baleflamer 170
Helldrake hades 170

So what do you think on the guns for the Helldrakes do i take more hades or more baleflamers?

Anyone?

Well...its certainly...interesting?

I'd honestly be keen to see how this does. My initial thoughts are that you're either going to get tabled or you're going to wreck face. I think this list will be heavily based on your dice rolls, as with most low model count list. Roll your armor and jink saves like a champ and you'll have no problem, but if you flub up more so than average, you'll go down pretty quick.

Most people on this site will strive for a balanced list that has a bit of everything, so don't expect much positive response. As for your helldrakes, I'd say two hades and one Bale Flamer, just so you have more than your two daemon princes to take on armor.

30 cultists are easy to remove, if they get killed, providing your doing missions your not going to be able to hold objectives or table quaters with that list.

I get im low on at fire but will there be that much mech at a 1250 tournament particularly as my area is necron heavy (everyone will be expecting to take my infamous flyer spam necrons). Also given what i did to mech even in 5th ed with the grey knights?

Normally id definitely go double hades but at this point level im unsure.

Personally I dont like it.
Troops are far far too weak t stick around.

Taking a small allied attachment of guard allowing you to take a couple of vendettas would out do anything a drake can do with hades against AV12 flyers.

DP's are hard to use because of toughness 5 and no eternal warrior, best kept cheap and used as a support unit rather than charging into the enemy lines.

What you have going for you is so much flyer.
But being so thin on the ground is an issue.
I would try a little more balance, drop some of the expensive upgrades from the princes, if you are going combat orientated perhaps just a mark of nurgle for 3+ jink.
I do like the Mace though.

Not a fan of mon as most hits will grant you a 3+ armour save.

I don't see what upgrades i could drop from the princes without severely hampering them. I know im thin on the ground this isn't a super competitive list if i wanted that id take my necrons.

Not interested in any allies.

Well how often are 2 biomancy powers going to be the ones you wanted or have a an impact to the game?

Maybe 1 in 3 at best? probably not even.
So why not drop those points and blob your cultists.

Well, looks like a monster mash list. Its hard to deal with several tough units at this pt level.
The only concern are the Cultists. A smart opponent would try to break them early in the game before your FMCs will arrive.

I could do that but with 4 powers total I've a very good chance of one of them iron arm. Leech can also be a life saver and warp speed is brutal and endurance helps too. So that's 4 from 6 powers that are likely to have an impact.

I could drop the powers and get what 25 more Cultists but without fearless i don't see the value in blobing them.

Im not dropping a drake or DP what else can you suggest? Im really concerned on whether to go with more baleflamers or Hades on the drakes?


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Westenflux i was planning on starting the FMCs on the board and the Cultists in reserve. That way when they turn up there should be more pressing threats for my opponent to target. Does that make sense?

Eh, it looks fun but easily breakable. In a killpoint game, they might do pretty well, but in any objective gametype all the other guy has to do is fire a few times at your cultists and it'll be impossible to win for you. There are few weapons that don't have at least AP5 so if you want to surive at all you'll have to keep going to ground to try and get the cover save, especially in area terrain where the enemy can easily pin you down.
I'd drop the second daemon prince and use the points to upgrade to the normal CSMs. Ten basic Chaos Space Marines are more efficient than thirty cultists.
And no, keep the two baleflamers. The Hades cannon is good for antiair (especially if you use the Daemonforge), but it's not as great at killing off ground troops as the S6 AP3 torrent flamer is. Plus, the baleflamer Heldrakes can Vector Strike at S7, which can do some damage against any flier they can't hit with the flamer.

Edit: Also, what marks do your Princes have? And another thing I thought of is that you're only starting the game with two extremely squishy units; if the enemy has any blast weapons with long range you run the risk of your cultists blowing up or breaking on turn one and you losing the game before your air support can come into play.

Why can't i win if the Cultists are dead? This is a 6th ed tournament not 5th.

What about ground based armour the hades is good against that too.

Westenflux i was planning on starting the FMCs on the board and the Cultists in reserve. That way when they turn up there should be more pressing threats for my opponent to target. Does that make sense?

Well, at this pt level this could make sense. If you keep the FMCs on a flank (refused flank setup) or behind terrain, then they should survive the incoming fire.

They're your only scoring unit? Unless tournies use special rules, I wouldn't know.
Yeah, use the Hades cannon against armor. At 1250 points you shouldn't expect ten Land Raiders and a field of Chimeras, so having a second anti infantry is probably the best. If the enemy is hiding in metal bawksez you can vector strike them, then turn around and set them on fire. Well, you can't really turn around but you know what I mean.

The biggest problem is that the cultists aren't good for anything but being meat shields. They don't have anti armor and their guns aren't even that great against infantry, so you only really have five dedicated attack units against the entire enemy army.
Oh, if you are insistent on bringing cultists, give them a flamer and heavy stubber, and give them all autoguns. That way they can at least do something to defend themselves.

Yeah that's the plan. Obviously if i think my opponent can alphastrike my dps I'll put more on the board.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Westenflux i was planning on starting the FMCs on the board and the Cultists in reserve. That way when they turn up there should be more pressing threats for my opponent to target. Does that make sense?

Again, not sure if tourny rules are different, but you can only keep half your army in reserve. You have seven units, three of which have to start in reserve. I don't remember if FMC have to start in reserve either, but if they do then I'm not sure if you'll be able to keep your cultists in reserve to protect them.

xSPYXEx wrote:
They're your only scoring unit? Unless tournies use special rules, I wouldn't know.
Yeah, use the Hades cannon against armor. At 1250 points you shouldn't expect ten Land Raiders and a field of Chimeras, so having a second anti infantry is probably the best. If the enemy is hiding in metal bawksez you can vector strike them, then turn around and set them on fire. Well, you can't really turn around but you know what I mean.

The biggest problem is that the cultists aren't good for anything but being meat shields. They don't have anti armor and their guns aren't even that great against infantry, so you only really have five dedicated attack units against the entire enemy army.
Oh, if you are insistent on bringing cultists, give them a flamer and heavy stubber, and give them all autoguns. That way they can at least do something to defend themselves.

i don't need to control any objectives to win in 6th. U should be able to clear out line breakers and if i give up first blood Im probably losing anyway.

I agree with the thinking on the baleflamers.

I don't need the Cultists to kill anything. 5 killy units is enough at this points level. My princes should be deleting a unit a turn from turn 2 onwards. They'll just find cover and go to ground whenever they are shot at.


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Drakes don't count to reserve allowance. So its any 2 units from the dps and Cultists that can start on the board. I advise you to reread your rulebook you seem to have some large gaps in your knowledge.

 FlingitNow wrote:
My princes should be deleting a unit a turn from turn 2 onwards.

Eh, I wouldn't count on it. They might be good, but they're not that great. Or, depending on who you're fighting they might be too good, if you break the squad in the first round of combat and let the enemy fire back at you in the next turn.
But, in the end, it is a rather interesting and unique list so it might be fun just to play around with it and see what people say.

On a related note, I was thinking about making an army with nothing but Chaos Space Daemons. Daemon Princes, Mutilators, Chaos Spawn, and Obliterators everywhere. I haven't gotten around to testing it, but it seems like it'd be fun to try.


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 FlingitNow wrote:
Drakes don't count to reserve allowance. So its any 2 units from the dps and Cultists that can start on the board. I advise you to reread your rulebook you seem to have some large gaps in your knowledge.

Sorry, I only have the DV rulebook so there might be some stuff that isn't in there and I get wrong.

All the rules are in dvd and they are page for page identical to the big rulebook.

Shush shush, I haven't memorized the rulebook and I don't have it with me at the time.

Drakes don't count to reserve allowance. So its any 2 units from the dps and Cultists that can start on the board. I advise you to reread your rulebook you seem to have some large gaps in your knowledge.

Very true.

At the 1250 pt level, you may not expect many heavy long-range weapons that can threat the DPs starting on the board. As said, refused flank and cover should help to keep them alive.

Well if it's tourneys your looking at I can say for certain that there will be a cheesy SW player in there somewhere... and the innevitable Longfang spam will make getting close to them difficult. Basically watch out for cheese lists... that said I think this list might actually do quite well.

 JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:
Well if it's tourneys your looking at I can say for certain that there will be a cheesy SW player in there somewhere... and the innevitable Longfang spam will make getting close to them difficult. Basically watch out for cheese lists... that said I think this list might actually do quite well.

Cheesy SW? Not sure what you mean.
Longfangs shouldn't be a big issue when you field 2 Helldrakes with baleflamers.

I've seen the list in action and to be fair i think its exactly what you say it is. Fun. there will certainly be far more cheesy lists turning up knowing some of the likely participants. And i think it can be effective as few can deal with 3 flyers quickly at 1500-1750, let alone 1250.

Yes it has some weaknesses, mainly the cultists and your abilty to roll successful 3+armour saves but the cultists are a necesary evil to allow points for the rest of it.

But it will hit hard.

One thing you could do is maybe drop both DPs to Mastery level 1 for extra points for more cultists maybe? I'm no chaos marine expert but wouldn't that give you 50 extra points?

To answer your actual question, i agree with some of the others. 2 AP3 flamers and one hades i think mate.