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We have an apocalypse tournament coming up and I'm wondering if the necron Mind in the Machine would allow possession of my baneblade or titan. Also, can it be used out of a command barge? Apocalypse update says super heavies are treated exactly as vehicles, with a few exceptions. Mind in the Machine says it affects a vehicle.

 thecapn226 wrote:
We have an apocalypse tournament coming up and I'm wondering if the necron Mind in the Machine would allow possession of my baneblade or titan.

Yes. It's a vehicle.

Also, can it be used out of a command barge?

No. It isn't classed as one of the things that can be used from inside a vehicle.

Ok, thanks. I'll have to prepare then.

rigeld2 wrote:

 thecapn226 wrote:

Also, can it be used out of a command barge?

No. It isn't classed as one of the things that can be used from inside a vehicle.

All you need is LOS, so an open topped vehicle like a CCB or Ghostark is fine.

PS you also need to be in range of course. 18"

40k-noob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 thecapn226 wrote:

Also, can it be used out of a command barge?

No. It isn't classed as one of the things that can be used from inside a vehicle.

All you need is LOS, so an open topped vehicle like a CCB or Ghostark is fine.

PS you also need to be in range of course. 18"

Find permission to draw LoS from an open topped vehicle for anything other than a witchfire power or a shooting attack.
MitM is neither.

40k-noob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 thecapn226 wrote:

Also, can it be used out of a command barge?

No. It isn't classed as one of the things that can be used from inside a vehicle.

All you need is LOS, so an open topped vehicle like a CCB or Ghostark is fine.

Wrong. You have no permission to draw LOS for MitM from inside a vehicle. Open-topped or no makes absolutely no difference from rules perspective.

 thecapn226 wrote:
We have an apocalypse tournament coming up and I'm wondering if the necron Mind in the Machine would allow possession of my baneblade or titan. Also, can it be used out of a command barge? Apocalypse update says super heavies are treated exactly as vehicles, with a few exceptions. Mind in the Machine says it affects a vehicle.

There's nothing preventing it from the Forge World Apocalypse FAQ; however, you might want to check with the APOC tournament organizer if he has any house rules regarding super heavies.

There is a Necron Strategic Asset that has a similar ability, but you only get to use it once. Also, as Psychic powers, entropic strike, and haywire attacks are modified for Super Heavies, I'm betting my local group would modify this similarly. However, that's all beside the point. As written, there's no rule stopping it from working.

Also, is this a "tournament" or did you mean an Apocalypse game. I can't see getting in more than one Apocalypse game in a given day, so the word "tournament" is a bit confusing unless this is a month long tournament...

Enjoy!

Luide wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 thecapn226 wrote:

Also, can it be used out of a command barge?

No. It isn't classed as one of the things that can be used from inside a vehicle.

All you need is LOS, so an open topped vehicle like a CCB or Ghostark is fine.

Wrong. You have no permission to draw LOS for MitM from inside a vehicle. Open-topped or no makes absolutely no difference from rules perspective.

True LOS is all the rules I need. If the model is on the CCB and has true LOS that is all that is needed.

40k-noob wrote:

Luide wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 thecapn226 wrote:

Also, can it be used out of a command barge?

No. It isn't classed as one of the things that can be used from inside a vehicle.

All you need is LOS, so an open topped vehicle like a CCB or Ghostark is fine.

Wrong. You have no permission to draw LOS for MitM from inside a vehicle. Open-topped or no makes absolutely no difference from rules perspective.

True LOS is all the rules I need. If the model is on the CCB and has true LOS that is all that is needed.

False. If you're embarked in a vehicle (the CCB is a vehicle) and need to trace Line of Sight (MitM does) you only have permission to do so via firing points.
Firing points only allow witchfires and shooting attacks. Is MitM one of those two things?

Placing the model on the CCB, while good to remember where the IC is (embarked on a transport), is not required and has no bearing on the rules at hand.

2500pt, two force org and one super heavy/titan. Played in a tournament format with prize support. Our FLGS does it every year in December.

40k-noob wrote:

Luide wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 thecapn226 wrote:

Also, can it be used out of a command barge?

No. It isn't classed as one of the things that can be used from inside a vehicle.

All you need is LOS, so an open topped vehicle like a CCB or Ghostark is fine.

Wrong. You have no permission to draw LOS for MitM from inside a vehicle. Open-topped or no makes absolutely no difference from rules perspective.

True LOS is all the rules I need. If the model is on the CCB and has true LOS that is all that is needed.

That is, unfortunately, not true. Else many many psyker powers could be used from a transport that shouldn't.

40k-noob wrote:

True LOS is all the rules I need. If the model is on the CCB and has true LOS that is all that is needed.

Then read the Embark rules, which require you to remove the model from the table. And everything Rigeld has said.

It is a common mistake, but a mistake all the same

Per BRB:

Open-topped Transports do not have specific Fire Points.
Instead, all passengers in an Open-topped Transport can fire,
measuring range and line of sight from any point on the hull
of the vehicle.

They still have fire points, just not any specific Fire Points.

Basically any spot on the Hull is a Fire Point.

yes, and LOS is not exclusive to shooting. It has its own section in the BRB pg 8

Or are folks here saying that LOS from an open topped vic ONLY for the purposes of shooting and nothing else?

40k-noob wrote:
yes, and LOS is not exclusive to shooting. It has its own section in the BRB pg 8

Or are folks here saying that LOS from an open topped vic ONLY for the purposes of shooting and nothing else?

Shooting and witchfire powers only.

40k-noob wrote:
Per BRB:

Open-topped Transports do not have specific Fire Points.
Instead, all passengers in an Open-topped Transport can fire,
measuring range and line of sight from any point on the hull
of the vehicle.

Brilliant, and you still have no permission to use the fire point for anything other than FIRING, as the rule states. You also are not "on" the vehicle, you are removed from the table as per the rules.

You are just wrong on this - it is a common mistake, but you are wrong

40k-noob wrote:
yes, and LOS is not exclusive to shooting. It has its own section in the BRB pg 8

Or are folks here saying that LOS from an open topped vic ONLY for the purposes of shooting and nothing else?

Shooting and witchfire - like I said.
LoS isn't exclusive to shooting. LoS from a vehicle is exclusive to shooting and witchfire.

40k-noob wrote:
Per BRB:

Open-topped Transports do not have specific Fire Points.
Instead, all passengers in an Open-topped Transport can fire,
measuring range and line of sight from any point on the hull
of the vehicle.

Is Mind in the Machine a shooting attack or a witchfire psychic power?

Yeah, I think that MitM was probably intended to be allowed from the CCB, but RAW it most certainly is not. It's something that causes a shooting attack, but isn't actually a shooting attack (as you use the vehicles LOS). If it bothers you that much, ask for a house ruling on it. You probably should anyway to see if everyone's okay with it being used against super heavies. For apoc, more than any other games you play, things need to be fun and run smoothly as otherwise it's barely playable (we all know that guy who keeps threatening to bring 20 doomsday devices, right?)

Actually from RAI point of view it probably never was intended to be used from the CCB.

I base this on the fact that 5e rulebook FAQ clarifying that you actually cannot use special abilities that require LOS from inside a vehicle.
This FAQ entry was published only after C:Necrons and it really only affected two special rules: I've Been Expecting You and Mind in the Machine.

So GW definitely know about this and Necrons have seen 3 FAQs after the 5e BRB FAQ. If GW had intended you to use MitM while embarked, they would already have FAQ'ed it.

Reason why the 5e FAQ is relevant is that it actually showed that there is no permission in the rules to draw LOS for special rules from inside vehicles. Before the FAQ people just assumed such provision existed, when it didn't.

And Njals powers, some of the time.