Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello peoples,

I have been reading the rules for a couple of weeks but i have only had two games so far, one was a close loss to Yu-Jing and the other a crushing victory against the Combined Army.

I play Ariadna and I have a few questions.

Traktor Muls. Do I need to take a Dozer with the Traktor Mul Control Device in order to use the Traktor Muls in my force or can I just take a Traktor Mul without the Dozer? Also they are listed in the army list as a Regular, does this mean that they provide an order to the order pool?

Order pool. I read somewhere that you can only have a max of 10 orders per turn. I have made a list that is sort of my take on a Kazak Sectorial list and it has 13 models in it, does this mean that I will get 13 regular orders and 1 lieutenant order per turn or will I only get a max of 10?

Tactical Jump. Using Van Zant as my lieutenant my force is effectly in a loss of lieutenant situation until he drops in (ie until he arrives I only have two orders per turn) can he arrive on my first turn? if so, can I use his lieutenant order to enter play (and any other parra troopers that are with him using their orders) and then have my full compliment of orders (except the ones that I spent to make him and his buddies arrive). eg. I have 10 models including Van Zant. Him and two buddies are off the board so I have 7 regular guys on the board. Because Van Zant is my Lieutenant I am in a loss of lieutenant situation so I only have 2 orders between my 7 regular dudes. Can I use his lieutenant order and the orders of his two buddies to arrive on turn one? Would I then have an order pool of 8 (7 regular and Van Zant unused order?) straight away, or would I only get my full order pool at the start of my next turn?

Thanks guys

nerm

Yes, you need to take the dozer with the TMC in order to field the traktors. No dozer with TMC, no traktor muls.

Orders: you can have a maximum of 10 models per order group (not per turn). Orders do not transfer across groups, though. Ariadna can easily have 27 orders at 300pts, for example. This would be three groups minimum, with three groups of orders. Say it's three groups of 9. No single model will have more than 10 orders spent on it (9 regular + Lt if able to) UNLESS it is also impetuous - so no spending all 27 orders on the one rambo.

Yes, he can use his own order to enter play (ALL AD troops do this anyway. They use their OWN order to jump in). As far as I am reading it, yes, this is what would happen.

Can one Dozer with TMC control 2 Traktor Muls? Would it be a good idea to take more than one Forward Observer?

So if I have 13 models I need to split them into two groups. Does that mean I need two lieutenants, one for each group? eg one with 6 models ( 6 regular orders + 1 lieutenant order) and one with 7 models (7 regular orders +1 lieutenant order) etc?

Can VZ enter play using his Lieutenant order and then give his order to the order pool?

You only need one Lt. In fact, you can only take one Lt.

The Lt. cannot share his Lt. order anyway so it doesn't matter what group he is as far as sharing the LT. order goes.

Nerm86 wrote:
Can one Dozer with TMC control 2 Traktor Muls? Would it be a good idea to take more than one Forward Observer?

So if I have 13 models I need to split them into two groups. Does that mean I need two lieutenants, one for each group? eg one with 6 models ( 6 regular orders + 1 lieutenant order) and one with 7 models (7 regular orders +1 lieutenant order) etc?

Can VZ enter play using his Lieutenant order and then give his order to the order pool?

It's 1 Dozer with TMC for the total AVA of the TMs. He's like the required hacker or TAG for the other factions' REMotes. Yes, it's a good idea to take several FOs. Co-ordinate FO mark orders, too where possible. They'll be both marking the same target - BUT one will be a f2f and one will be normal (the target can stop one, but he's getting tagged anyway). Ariadna have lots of FO options - and in the Campaign Paradiso missions, FOs count as specialists, too.
Lt is one per ARMY, not combat group.
Can VZ use his Lt order to AD and give his regular order to the pool? Yes. He is the Lt, and it does allow him to do anything his regular order does (in addition to selected things it can be used for on other models).

Declaring that you are in a LoL situation and then dropping a model that ends that state is a clear signal to the enemy who your Lieutenant is. This, coupled with the fact that Van Zant is an agressive-style model usually dropped in the face of the enemy, might provide for a tactical challenge, where you try to keep your LT. alive.

 Alkasyn wrote:
Declaring that you are in a LoL situation and then dropping a model that ends that state is a clear signal to the enemy who your Lieutenant is. This, coupled with the fact that Van Zant is an agressive-style model usually dropped in the face of the enemy, might provide for a tactical challenge, where you try to keep your LT. alive.

VZ can only bring his buddies with him if he is the Lt, if he isn't then he is the only one that can enter play in the enemies deployment zone. He would be dropping in with buddies for some added protection. But yes I see your point, it is kinda hard to hide VZ if he is the Lt dropping in with buddies

Nerm86 wrote:

 Alkasyn wrote:
Declaring that you are in a LoL situation and then dropping a model that ends that state is a clear signal to the enemy who your Lieutenant is. This, coupled with the fact that Van Zant is an agressive-style model usually dropped in the face of the enemy, might provide for a tactical challenge, where you try to keep your LT. alive.

VZ can only bring his buddies with him if he is the Lt, if he isn't then he is the only one that can enter play in the enemies deployment zone. He would be dropping in with buddies for some added protection. But yes I see your point, it is kinda hard to hide VZ if he is the Lt dropping in with buddies

I didn't know that - then you have to appreciate the situation and plan ahead accordingly. The game is certainly not lost if the enemy knows who your LT is, it's just harder.

Having played against VZ many many many times, it typically doesn't matter. The Van Zant rear attack is a bit of a one trick pony. if you succeed it will devastate your opponent. If it fails, you have lost your Lt and a chunk of other points.

All in all I don't recommend it because it's hit and miss. Once your opponent has seen it once they will be better prepared for it the next time round.

Well you dont need to bring him on in the enemy deployment zone.. if he has set up people watching his back field then bring him on the side or even in your own deployment zone. There is not much point taking VZ unless he is your Lieutenant. I have only played one game with him and he completely dominated but i can see that he wont always work

As with most games I am in it to have fun and not necessarily win.

If i have a list that is 13 models in 250points would i be better of having some more expensive guys to bring it down to 10 or 9 models so that i only have one combat group or would be it okay to have two groups of 6/7? does it matter how i split up the force? also if a forward observer from one group marks a target can anyone from the other group then use it to make speculative shots?

Is it 10 orders max for a combat group so if you only have one combat group you can only have 9 models to be optimum (9 orders + the Lt order) or is it 10 'base' orders max then you get the Lt and any impetous orders on top of that..

god damn it im such a noob

It's debatable whether having more models or higher quality models is better. The penalty for having so many models is that you'll have to separate your entire force into two groups and you cannot share orders between the two groups. If you've ever played a game and found yourself starved for points, it's like that except you're running two entire suboptimal forces.

However, if any models you have are Irregular, there's almost no penalty for shoving them all into the second Group and keeping your normal models in the first Group.

If you want my opinion, shove all Irregulars into their own Combat Group and try to keep your 'main' Group at 9-10. Opinions, of course. While you're learning, stick to one Combat Group for the time being.

The Forward Observer skill marks the target for the whole side. Combat Groups have no affect on this skill and the target is considered marked regardless of which Group originally marked it.

When making a list, it is 10 models per group regardless of how many orders that model would give.
The Lieutenant counts as one model for a Combat Group, but provides one Regular order and one special Lieutenant order.
Irregulars count as one model for a Combat group, but provide a non-sharable Irregular order for themselves.
Impetuous models count as one model for a Combat group, but provide one Regular order and one mandatory Impetuous order.
Models that do not give orders (G:Servant, etc) do not count and you may add as many as you can afford.

Don't worry about being new. The learning curve is a bit steep at first, but the rules are rather intuitive.

It's 10 models maximum per group.
If you have 17 models, you can have no more than 10 in group one - and put the other 7 into group 2 and this is entirely "legal".

As Absolutionis said, it's MODELS per group, NOT orders.
To give an example using PanO.

3 PanO auxilia with auxbots are 6 models but only generate 3 orders and for the group are counted as 3 models.

(Models with G:sync or G:servant do not add orders, but are additional models that do not count against this limit.)