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Just starting my dark eldar army, going to focus on half fast transports and half heavy units. But its going to be a number of days before I get the dark eldar codex and ive already got my hands on a box of Kabalite warriors and a raider transport but I dont know what to equip them with weapon wise. Such as what should i make the squad into, I hear 1 lance and 1 blaster or something are a good choice? and what are my weapon choices with the raider, what would be best for an army going up mainly again space marines and terminators?

Your kabalite hqve poisoned weapons(+4). If you stick thm on a raider with gun racks (which lets them rerole failed to wounds), they'll make space marines wish they had never been born. How ever, their guns don't do anything to landraiders, razor backs or any other vehicle(dreadnourghts don't count, you can still kill them with kabalites). Make your Heavy weapon dark lance and your special weapon a blaster. Mount, them on you raider qnd you've got a ravenger which can act as a, transport. Give your sybarite a blast pistol(strenght 8!) And a venom blade(2+!). Ps, a sbarite is the important looking guy that came in your kabalite pack.

Is short, go with thos rule: poison dosn't hurt vehicles, so gt as many darklances and blasters as you can get your hands on.

Thanks for the advice I was thinking of going tank hunter with the dark lance just wasn't sure, a few people have told me that a sybarite isn't worth the points vs its effectiveness?

 Archon Tobias wrote:
Your kabalite hqve poisoned weapons(+4). If you stick thm on a raider with gun racks (which lets them rerole failed to wounds).

Splinter racks allow you to reroll your hits, not your wounds.

I've always gone with a Dark Lance on my Raiders, you need as much anti tank as you can pack and you're looking at Darklight (lances and blasters) for that.

A good tip if you're starting out and not using the hangers on that come with the Raider is to use them as test models, try out your colour scheme and different techniques.

As for arming your Kabalites, it depends how you will run them and in what transport. One of the classic units is 5 in a Venom, giving one a Blaster, however with the changes to rapid fire in 6th, there are a lot more gunboats around. If you were going to use 10 in a Raider then I think anything that isn't a splinter cannon is a waste as you're not getting the most out of the unit, you need to try and be as point efficient as you can. I wouldn't worry about a Sybarite.

Hope some of this helps,

Sky.

hmm now im just not sure lol me and my friend usually played against each other a few years ago now that we are going to start playing seriously I need an army thats not so much tank hunting as it is a terminator hunters. You see hes gone and got himself a rather OP lot of terminators and I need ways of taking them down as they are his troops thanks to that Dark angels leader? I cant remember what exactly but he can take terminators as troops?

So I need my army kitted out for those kind of enemies, then ill build a more versatile build later on. so any recommendations beyond my warriors and raider like what i should buy next (except the leader of course)
Seems Venoms are a good choice?

wyches. And lots of them. Make sure they have transport( venoms or raiders). They get a specal save in close combat. They will kill a lot of termies, but don't count on them surviving to the end of the game. I recently bought a talos, and I love it! Give it two splinter canons and you have a heavy armoured beas that can take down 2 tactical sqauds and few sqouts in one turn(my talos actually did this).

 AtomicEngineer wrote:
hmm now im just not sure lol me and my friend usually played against each other a few years ago now that we are going to start playing seriously I need an army thats not so much tank hunting as it is a terminator hunters. You see hes gone and got himself a rather OP lot of terminators and I need ways of taking them down as they are his troops thanks to that Dark angels leader? I cant remember what exactly but he can take terminators as troops?

So I need my army kitted out for those kind of enemies, then ill build a more versatile build later on. so any recommendations beyond my warriors and raider like what i should buy next (except the leader of course)
Seems Venoms are a good choice?

I would get 2-3 ravagers and/or a razorwing and of course plenty venoms. If youre planning on tailoring a list to fight termies, I would magnetize the ravagers as x3 dissies arent as useful as x3 lances in other matchups. On the other hand I would only take dissies x2 on a razorwing with stock missiles which is great vs teq

 Archon Tobias wrote:
wyches. And lots of them. Make sure they have transport( venoms or raiders). They get a specal save in close combat. They will kill a lot of termies, but don't count on them surviving to the end of the game. I recently bought a talos, and I love it! Give it two splinter canons and you have a heavy armoured beas that can take down 2 tactical sqauds and few sqouts in one turn(my talos actually did this).

Taloi can't take 2 splinter cannons. They start with one on the tail and can trade it out for other weapons.

They can take a twin linked liquifier gun (flamer eq) plus a twin-linked tail weapon.

Wyches SUCK at killing termies. Just so you know. A unit of ten can pile 20 -30 attacks out (depending on whether they get the charge) but Will be hitting on S 3. Their WS is the same as the termies, so 10-15 will hit. Of these 3-5 will wound (on 5's). None are 2+ power weapons, so maybe one wound will get through.

Termies will pile attacks back on the wyches, with half of them hitting, and wounding on 3's (or 2's for powerfists/hammers etc). Sure they get less hits, but twice as many will wound. Half of those will be blocked by the 4+ inv. The others just die.

Either the wyches break and run, or they get stuck in a meatgrinder where they are the meat.


Are you sure you are playing DE by the current codex and ruleset? Your Talos loadout isn't legal, and termies are the worst thing for Wyches to kill. They are lethal to vehicles with grenades, but not so hot against troops, especially heavy infantry. Splinter racks are rerolls to hit not to wound...

Also you made the comment upthread that Kabalites can't hurt vehicles due to poisoned weapons, except dreads? I'm a bit curious what you meant by that?

'Your kabalite hqve poisoned weapons(+4). If you stick thm on a raider with gun racks (which lets them rerole failed to wounds), they'll make space marines wish they had never been born. How ever, their guns don't do anything to landraiders, razor backs or any other vehicle(dreadnourghts don't count, you can still kill them with kabalites)'

If you meant that poison weapons don't work on vehicles, dreads are vehicles also.

If you meant that Blaster and DL work on dreads, they work on every other vehicle also.

Not sure how your Talos is managing to attack three infantry squads in one turn either? The old talos guns from the previous dex could i think, but the current one can't. The rules are very clear that you can't multiattack squads like that without a special rule that lets you do so (like DOM's life-slurping field).





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To OP.

A fairly effective build for me for non-coven specific armies (the models are expensive as hell or you need to convert your own) would be:

Archon/Succubus (whichever you prefer) or named HQ SC.
3 Haemonculi as second HQ choice if you want to add them to a unit to start the unit with a pain token.

3 raiders with kabalites, each unit with blaster and DL, I also like to give the sarge a blast pistol, but that's me. Raiders have DL and splinter racks. Generally mine have night sheids. Use as shooty units, and try to keep out of CC. Use them as tank/transport killers and mopup units.

The Raiders focus on a transport or tank, while the units inside mow down the contents.

You could also run tag pairs. I do this sometimes.

One raider is antitank, with a dl, shadowfields, blasterborn passengers (elite choice). The other is anti-infantry with a disintegrator, with warriors with splinter racks, splinter cannon and shredder or blaster.

The antitank raider kills a transport, and the passengers (if not needed to kill the transport) kill either the contents (termies/marines) or another nearby vehicle. The buddy raider then mops up the unit/s left without a ride.

Take a few venoms with units of 5 wyches with Haywire grenades, and give the Venom an extra splinter cannon.

Drop the wyches off to kill vehicles in CC (and with thrown Haywires at one per squad per shooting turn), and use the venoms to tear-ass about shooting infantry/MC's with splinter-cannon fire.

Take 3 ravagers or a mix of ravagers and fliers to bring some anti-tank pain. Voidravens are good at killing tanks, and ravagers aren't bad at tanks (with DL) or heavy infantry/MC (disintegrators). Razorwings run stock, with disintegrators, can make a mulch of marines and termies alike, once the anti-tank units have popped the transports.

I love Pain Engines, don't get me wrong, but they are very fragile. Low wounds (3), only 3+ armour. T 7 can be taken down with bolter fire, and a single unit of devastators can down one with missiles or lascannons in one turn. They can be killed by rank and file Tac marines in CC (S 4) let alone the Thammers and Fists of a termie unit.

Gorgeous model, but very easy to kill, Especially since there is no way to grant it pain tokens other than it killing a unit, save for the Cronos pain engine, which uses up another heavy slot and is just as fragile.


I run full-on Coven- themed armies quite often, with Pain Engines as my heavies and Wracks as my troops, but while i like the build aesthetically, it's nowhere near as effective.

I'm playing by the new rules. For a talos, you can give it twinlinked splinter canons. They are 12 attacks of +4. Plus watever other stuff you give it. Mine has twin splinter canons, 2 close combat weapons(7 strenght!) and 1d6 extra attacks.
Are you sure YOU play buy the nex rules ascalam? At the top of the picture you can clerly see two splinter canons. Ps, the modles not done yet.

 Archon Tobias wrote:


I'm playing by the new rules. For a talos, you can give it twinlinked splinter canons. They are 12 attacks of +4. Plus watever other stuff you give it. Mine has twin splinter canons, 2 close combat weapons(7 strenght!) and 1d6 extra attacks.
Are you sure YOU play buy the nex rules ascalam? At the top of the picture you can clerly see two splinter canons. Ps, the modles not done yet.

No, a Talos has 1 Twin-linked splinter cannon, giving it 6 shots.
I think you need to look up what "Twin-linked" means. Here's a hint : It does not mean 2.

Pretty curious about the remark implying that poisoned weapons can kill dreads. They can't.

I like putting 10 warriors in a dark lance raider with a blaster. A dark lance on kabalites isn't that great because a static kabalite is a dead kabalite IMHO. As said before, ravagers with 3 disintegrator cannons will literally destroy terminator squads. I will always give raiders a dark lance though, You need them to pop vehicles at range. Don't bother with a sybarite. Close combat is not where you want your kabalites anyway.

If you're looking for mass splinter fire go for venoms with two splinter cannons and put 5 kabalites in them with a blaster

 Archon Tobias wrote:


I'm playing by the new rules. For a talos, you can give it twinlinked splinter canons. They are 12 attacks of +4. Plus watever other stuff you give it. Mine has twin splinter canons, 2 close combat weapons(7 strenght!) and 1d6 extra attacks.
Are you sure YOU play buy the nex rules ascalam? At the top of the picture you can clerly see two splinter canons. Ps, the modles not done yet.

As mentioned above-

Twin-linked does not mean that you get 2 guns worth of shots - Pg 43 of the rulebook tells you what twin-linked does. It was the same way in 5th ed as well btw.

Believe me, i'd love it to be your way sometimes, but just because a gun has 2 barrels in this game it doesn't mean it gets 2 full sets of shots.

Are your opponent's regular land raiders shooting four lascannons at you per turn? If so they are cheating.

Chain Flails also don't add +1d6 attacks. Talos get 1d6 attacks base (plus one for extra CCW if you buy it). Chainflails let you roll 2 dice for this amount, and take the highest.

Again, i'd love it to be your way, but it's not. Pg 40 DE codex.

Oh my totally missed that one d6 extra attacks. Would be cool but pretty OP. Dark eldar have enough gimmicks as is

 Ascalam wrote:

 Archon Tobias wrote:


I'm playing by the new rules. For a talos, you can give it twinlinked splinter canons. They are 12 attacks of +4. Plus watever other stuff you give it. Mine has twin splinter canons, 2 close combat weapons(7 strenght!) and 1d6 extra attacks.
Are you sure YOU play buy the nex rules ascalam? At the top of the picture you can clerly see two splinter canons. Ps, the modles not done yet.

As mentioned above-

Twin-linked does not mean that you get 2 guns worth of shots - Pg 43 of the rulebook tells you what twin-linked does. It was the same way in 5th ed as well btw.

Believe me, i'd love it to be your way sometimes, but just because a gun has 2 barrels in this game it doesn't mean it gets 2 full sets of shots.

Are your opponent's regular land raiders shooting four lascannons at you per turn? If so they are cheating.


Chain Flails also don't add +1d6 attacks. Talos get 1d6 attacks base (plus one for extra CCW lyou buy it). Chainflails let you roll 2 dice for this amount, and take the highest

Again, i'd love it to be your way, but it's not. Pg 40 DE codex.

I'm new an hqve only been playing since january. Sorry, havn't read the rulebook yet. My brother told me tuis je has been cheatin lol


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Sorry only been playing since january. Havn't read the rule book yet my brother has been cheating with twin linked! Lol

you've been playing for almost a year and never read the rules? ouch xD About time

 Archon Tobias wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:

 Archon Tobias wrote:


I'm playing by the new rules. For a talos, you can give it twinlinked splinter canons. They are 12 attacks of +4. Plus watever other stuff you give it. Mine has twin splinter canons, 2 close combat weapons(7 strenght!) and 1d6 extra attacks.
Are you sure YOU play buy the nex rules ascalam? At the top of the picture you can clerly see two splinter canons. Ps, the modles not done yet.

As mentioned above-

Twin-linked does not mean that you get 2 guns worth of shots - Pg 43 of the rulebook tells you what twin-linked does. It was the same way in 5th ed as well btw.

Believe me, i'd love it to be your way sometimes, but just because a gun has 2 barrels in this game it doesn't mean it gets 2 full sets of shots.

Are your opponent's regular land raiders shooting four lascannons at you per turn? If so they are cheating.


Chain Flails also don't add +1d6 attacks. Talos get 1d6 attacks base (plus one for extra CCW lyou buy it). Chainflails let you roll 2 dice for this amount, and take the highest

Again, i'd love it to be your way, but it's not. Pg 40 DE codex.

I'm new an hqve only been playing since january. Sorry, havn't read the rulebook yet. My brother told me tuis je has been cheatin lol


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Sorry only been playing since january. Havn't read the rule book yet my brother has been cheating with twin linked! Lol

Words of wisdom- free, gratis and on special offer today Read the rules and the codex. Check codex rules against the rulebook if they aren't explained, because stuff like Twin-linked, Monstrous Creature etc are generally in the main rulebook.

If you need help in learning the game there are a ton of great players on here, and many of them are willing to teach a bit, but they do assume you've read the rules and codex first

PM me if you have any questions, and i'll do my best to answer them if you like

Thanks!


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Back on topic however, id buya talos and plenty of ravangers. Id buy a sqaud of wyxhes too. Not to good on termies, but their good against imperial guard an stuff.

 Archon Tobias wrote:
Thanks!


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Back on topic however, id buya talos and plenty of ravangers. Id buy a sqaud of wyxhes too. Not to good on termies, but their good against imperial guard an stuff.

What, wyches are drastically more effective against terminators than they are against guardsmen units.
A unit of 10 naked wyches with the drug for oh say +1A charges 200 points of THSS terms orrrr 200 points of guardsmen (I don't know the IG book too well so it will be simplified)
Terms, no overwatch, wyches trike first, 40 A 20 hit, 7 wound, a term goes down who freaking who. Terms swing back, 2 hit, 2 wound, one wych dies, tied combat, Dark Eldar are pleased.
40 Guardsmen, on overwatch about 13 hits, 6 wounds (assuming no FNP which is sometimes the case) 5 dead wyches. wyches score 10 hits, 5 wound, about 3 dead IG, IG swing back and drown the wyches in a round or two of combat. Wyches love getting into combat with low A, expensive models with poor overwatch, (assault termies work the best, they are also effective against HWT's such as devs). How ever purchase ravagers, you will always need at least one.

You're assuming that you get that +1 A drug there.

What happens if you don't and get Hypex instead

Also you understated the termies ability to hit back. They have 2 attacks base and the same WS. They will hit 4 times, and wound with every one, most likely. about 2 wyches will die, odds on. Wyches lose combat.

Lets say a unit of 10 naked wyches (why? Haywire wyches are near mandatory) charges a naked termie squad from the basic marines book. We'll leave the drugs out for now, as there is no telling which you will get.

4 termies and one sergeant. - 200 pts.

Wyches swing first, because termies are all PFing except the sarge, and he's not that quick..

On the charge, 30 attacks. WS is equal. 15 hit, of those 5 wound. One of those maaaybe actually gets through or maybe not (1 in 6 chance, with 5 wounds, is a toss up) Odds are you might do a wound, but don't bank on it.

Termies swing back.

2 attacks per, with powerfists (power sword for sarge). 10 Swings. Equal WS means 5 hit. Wounds on 2's for the PF and 3's for the sword so lets say the DE get lucky and one fails to. Half are blocked by 4+ inv. 2 wyches explode.

(if they killed a guy 8 will swing, 4 will hit, odds are they'll all wound, but even if one doesn't it's still 1.5 dead wyches.

Wyches lose combat. They might run, or they might stick around.

And that's on the charge. Without the charge bonus they swing 20 times, hit with ten, wound with four on a good day, and maybe get a single death.



The extra attack from Adrenalight would make it more likely that one Termie would die, as the unit would do another 10 attacks, another 5 would hit, and perhaps one would get through. Put that with the other result and it's pretty much guaranteed you kill one termie.

Hypex helps not at all

Serpentin would add a few extra hits, and thus maybe guarantee that one dead termie.

Painbringer would add a few more successful to-wound rolls, and might even bring it up to 2 dead termies on a good day, but more likely one by meatball math. I don't have time tonight to do full on decimal-point mathhammer.

Splintermind would up the survivability of the Wyches, meaning that the termies would likely only kill one,.



10 Wyches vs guard - 200 pts of naked guard (6 infantry squads - 60 guys)

on the charge- assuming no drugs, and leaving off firing before assaulting and the defenders reactive fire. (meatball is about 3 deaths from splinter pistols and about 3 lasgun wounds, with likelyhood of 2.5 wyches dead, but lets keep the math simple. feel free to refigure for them, and for the 6-7 hits, 3-4 wounds and 1/3 of a dead termie if you like above).

30 attacks, 20 hit, 10 wound - 3 save, and 7 die

Assuming all 60 guys can fight (very unlikely, but we will assume it for simplicity's sake)

18 attacks from the sarges
54 attacks from the other guys, minus 7 for the dead 'uns.

of that 65, 32 hit, 16 wound and 8 wyches die


Guardsmen are better at killing wyches than termies, due to sheer weight of numbers.

Of course you'd have to be a fething moron to charge 10 wyches (100 pts) at either unit in such a way that all opponents can get in on the action, when they could be blowing that several-hundred point tank squadron apart instead...

Wyches kill more of the guard, but the guard don't care too much. Each termie lost is a blow, but odds are they'd be trading 100+ pts of wyches for a single termie.


Now try against 200 pts of Ratlings- the results are likely much uglier for the guard


Wyches are best used to assassinate small or weakened units or to destroy vehicles. Slugfests are for those with power armour and T4/S4 or massive numbers.


This also assumes the vastly inferior points-wise wyches (about 100 pts) didn't bring some groovy wych weapons to up the amount of attacks they have/sod up the enemy's attacks, and that they didn't bring Venoms or similar to gun down the guys they are about to charge. Wyches should never go into an even fight if they can make it uneven first instead.. A couple of Venoms with dual cannons firing into those guardsmen or termies would change the results no end, while bringing the wyches up to the 200 pt units they are fighting

I assumed Adrenalight because I didn't want to do 5 different calculations, and adrenalight is middle of the road desirability so as not to bias the equation too much. I was unaware of the 2 A base, that certainly changes things, however, my counterpoint still stands that. Wyches are ineffective at combating guardsmen relative to units such as hammernators. Ofc as you said, neither are especially useful when compared to usage as assassains or, better yet, one shotting heavy armor in melee.

Tru nuff.

I've seen wyches maul units, but it's luck more than awesomeness. They, like most DE, are much better as bullies than when in a fair fight.

In 6th, especially, wyches are too damn frail for anything but tank-killing or assassination. Bloodbrides can tip the balance a little, but even so aren't that hot.

]Wyches SUCK at killing termies. Just so you know. A unit of ten can pile 20 -30 attacks out (depending on whether they get the charge) but Will be hitting on S 3. Their WS is the same as the termies, so 10-15 will hit. Of these 3-5 will wound (on 5's). None are 2+ power weapons, so maybe one wound will get through.

Termies will pile attacks back on the wyches, with half of them hitting, and wounding on 3's (or 2's for powerfists/hammers etc). Sure they get less hits, but twice as many will wound. Half of those will be blocked by the 4+ inv. The others just die.
Either the wyches break and run, or they get stuck in a meatgrinder where they are the meat.

Not what this guy said.




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That was directed at nythyr, not ascalam.

Shrug

Different opinions are different

It never ends well for me when my wyches wind up against terminators, but some folk roll lucky with wyches in a termie-killing fight. Heavily kitted out wyches have more of a chance also, as shardnets can foul up the termies ability to hit back, and Razorflails or Hydra guantlets can tip the math in their favor.


What drug you get (it's random) also makes a difference. Some are more useful for CC wyches, like Painbringer (reroll to wound rolls is handy when you are S 3) and Grave Lotus can mitigate the DE's cruddy S scores.

I generally run my wyches as small squads in venoms, with Haywire grenades. They are meant for tank killing, while the Venoms do the infantry-killind end and get them there.

I never said wyches are good at killing terms or IG. Ascalam pointed out my math was flawed (which it was) because of some assumptions and the fact that the math was in a vacuum. Personally, I have had a good amount of success assaulting terms and similar units with wyches, as overwatch is less likely in effect, or not as effective as usual.


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Oh and I usually run them in 5 in a venom, IMO the best possible build right now.