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wargey wrote:
Thanks but mabey some op units nids have them. There calld geanstelers. Thousnd sons oblitorators. Baneblade. Hammerheads. Stormravens landrader monerlith

I believe none of those units are OP. And you still should NEVER add op units on purpose. I personally would not play with or against codex like that, where it had been done.

Got a rule for master tu'shan
Master Of The Firedrakes

He can take any firedrake as troops
firedrakes firedrake termis . dactliyd pilot's . drake riders

born from fire

no flamer can hert him

sympathy if I am your friend
if a friendly unit charge a combat or damage a piece of area train he shoots it



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tda wrist mounted Flamer storm bolter special issue ammo
wrath of Prometheus or breath of noctruen Sen'an hide
drake mount
wrath of Prometheus is a th that strikes at i4
breath of noctruen is a power sword that can hit at strength 10 ap 0 no saves instead of his 4

Any feed back on tu'shan.

]Im still waiting on a compilation in a word document or a pdf or at least notepad....or something...

Also, some better formatting would help us out. Making it easier to read means people can help you faster.

On Tu'Shan, you mention Firedrake troops. Um...what might those be? As in their stats? I still think the "No flamer" thing is a bit absurd....but if it's only on this SC then okay. Also, I don't see ACTUAL stats. I see a bunch of special rules and some war-gear. ALSO, no points so we can't really balance much. The rule with sympathy and stuff seems good. Not sure how strong this can be, it's basically a unit shooting at full BS on a charging unit PLUS overwatch. Will test that out a bit....

Once again, a bit clearer writing, a compilation of all the stats and units so far (in a PDF or text document so it can be spell checked and edited), and a format can help...

If a frend blow tarain or charges into a unit in cc with anoughther
Stats
Ws bs. S T. W. Ld
5. 5. 5. 5. 3. 10

wargey wrote:
If a frend blow tarain or charges into a unit in cc with anoughther
Stats
Ws bs. S T. W. Ld
5. 5. 5. 5. 3. 10

Attacks? Save? Initiative? Points?

Also, reading over his weapons, he has a Thunder Hammer that hits at I4 (so im guessing that's his Initiative?). That's not too bad, other weapons have similar stats.


But.....a Str 10 Power Sword that is AP 0 (AP 0? Seriously? What does that even mean? I guess it means the same as AP 1 but what about in vehicle armor pen? With Str 10 attacks he WILL pen in CC against vehicles most likely, so what does AP 0 mean for it? Like AP 1 is +2, AP 2 is +1, etc?)

if he has a TH it wont matter what his Initiative is, since a TH is unwieldy it always strikes a a I1 so, but im with washout here St 10? no just plain no. and an AP1 on a melee weapon is just plain dumb

If you do a proper Salamanders codex, it needs, I repeat, needs to have a twin linked heavy flamer flier of some sort. Just because a flying ship unleashing hell literally would be awesome for them. Could even base it on the Stormtalon or something.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
if he has a TH it wont matter what his Initiative is, since a TH is unwieldy it always strikes a a I1 so, but im with washout here St 10? no just plain no. and an AP1 on a melee weapon is just plain dumb

Nope, apparently this one strikes at I4! Oh, and he also has the Str 10 AP 0 (?) power sword WITH the TH at I4. So two melee weapons, both of them really strong.

Still trying to figure out ranged weapons. I think he means the guy has a Flamer and a Storm Bolter with "special issue ammo" (which he doesn't explain what it is, like usual. I guess it's the ammo from Sternguard units?). I also think the guy is mounted on....something....because he says "Drake Mount". This unit confuses me.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
If you do a proper Salamanders codex, it needs, I repeat, needs to have a twin linked heavy flamer flier of some sort. Just because a flying ship unleashing hell literally would be awesome for them. Could even base it on the Stormtalon or something.

I would approve of this. Make it a Stormtalon with Heavy Flamers on it, make it an assault ship like thing (drops space marines in the middle of the fighting under the cover of FIRE)

This ship is caled the flame hawk
The wepons said or and I meen li cato's one attack whith the special rule for it per tern and the special ammo I presumed you would no as as far as I no only stergaurds have sia
It will bw like amour of ancolis just it will be tu shan whithe the rules for a drake rider it will fight till it is killed like a warg

Of if i fired insanitary missiles. Large blase thats tl that uses the heavy flamer str and ap

For some odd reason I get the feeling this is just matt ward trolling us, genestealers, chaos, and tau op now? News to me.

The amount of twinlinking and flame weaponry in this thread would make any divination wielding sister player blush, and str 10 th because of a salamander usr? I mean this is the kinda stuff that would have grey knights being painted green

I always like seeing communities take on our beloved game, but this is kinda over the top in most all regards

OP, I urge you to take a little longer and put a little bit extra effort into your posts for spelling, punctuation, capitalization and basic grammar.

When laying out a unit, use the format that countless others use in this section to list stats (a quick glance at some other threads will show you), but consists of a properly laid out stat line, followed by the unit type and composition, with the special rules and wargear listed underneath. Then explain the special wargear and rules in a clear and concise manner below the entry.

There has been A LOT of work done by users on this board and many others trying to build a Sallie's dex, particularly Bolter and Chainsword (go there and read their resources if your serious).

Do not go overboard with a lot of special rules. The uniqueness should come through subtlety; think the opposite of spacewolves. Do not name everything after dragons/drakes/dracon stuff, and not everything has to be super uber special. They are, after all, a codex chapter with a few unique traits.

Work on one or two univeral rules, then add one or two pieces of unique wargear or upgrades available to common units or vehicles, then design a small handful of special characters and maybe a unique unit or two. Nothing more.

But seriously, please, write better as it is very difficult to read and understand what you're trying to say, as well as being a pain and generally distracting.

Ye sorry didn't realise till now theat I spelt so bad my phone dose not have spell check. About it no I am not mat ward my name is harry wargen I am a 12 year old form hereford I have seen bolter and chainsword and I did not think the rules are good they are under powered. a codex chapter with a few unique traits. Is not true there orginazition is wron they don't follow ther astartes higher percentege of devestators lots of fast moving tanks so they can get in close learn from the cult of promeathus. Not meny bikers like assult sq tipacly ownage if valkun had been at earth not promeathus signarus would not die well amourd resitant to flame put there self on the line only retrate if the gaurd are being slaughterd with the gaurd people pary for the sallies as they no that they have a better chance of survivle

Termanators. 210 pionts
Ws. Bs. S. T. I. A. Ld
4. 4. 5. 4. 3. 2. 9+
Unit
4-9 termanators
1 termanator sargent
Infantry

Special rules
In to the fires of battle
Unto the anvil of war
Atsknf
Combat squads
Red eyes of noctrune

Wargear
Tda
Storm bolter or a combi flamer melta
Power fist

Options
Upgrade to firedrakes whith drakehides thunder hammers and combi flamer +1 attack +1 bs and ws +15points per man
Take hevey flamer free
Take cyclone missile launcher +10
Master craft any wepon +5

What's the point of even giving terminators -1 int, just say they are strength 10 and be done with it, not being able to deepstrike is not a downside, I haven't known a termi player to do that since 4th ed chaos.

Those guys over at BnC have a solid Salamander list going, saying its underpowered, is like saying your rules are balanced.

I still think this is just a troll personally, as their is some really cool ideas floating around this thread, but all I keep seeing is dragon,drake, dracon, strength 10, fnp, fire, fire, fire. What's the point in asking this really established community for help, if won't take a word of it?

 Arthas367 wrote:
What's the point of even giving terminators -1 int, just say they are strength 10 and be done with it, not being able to deepstrike is not a downside, I haven't known a termi player to do that since 4th ed chaos.

Those guys over at BnC have a solid Salamander list going, saying its underpowered, is like saying your rules are balanced.

I still think this is just a troll personally, as their is some really cool ideas floating around this thread, but all I keep seeing is dragon,drake, dracon, strength 10, fnp, fire, fire, fire. What's the point in asking this really established community for help, if won't take a word of it?

I have to agree. I would gladly play (or play with) BnC's Salamander list. I actually quite like it to be honest, the sight of a fandex that actually works for once is a nice sight to see.....

But, I'll attempt to help. Ok, first of all, yes they are a codex chapter. They still follow most codex tactics, and of course they have personal traits. Saying those personal traits makes them non-codex means that there are no codex chapters. They aren't Space Wolves or Black Templars, good examples of a true non-codex chapters. Yeah, they have preferred tactics, but those are still codex tactics.

Also, make sure you keep your rules non-OP. Im seeing A LOT of Strength 10, FNP, low AP's, and things. May I suggest a army wide special rule? Maybe for the tactical squads allow them to take 2 flamers for free instead of the typical 1 special and 1 heavy? Since you and they seem to be obsessed with fire....but, for a 12 year old you're getting somewhere

OOOH 12-year old explains it.

I'm still going to agree with what everyone else has said, and give up myself. No offence, but you should at least try and listen.

All that I am using is stuf on rhis page in optians they can take heavy flamers
They all follw the trails of valkun so it involves the -1 AP -1 S on sallies they all are +1 S -1 I. The drake thing is because the salamanders are named after them the no tp has been scraped and if you don't like how I want my sallies to be don't tell me to get rid of stuff that makes them sallies by what you say I will just allow them to be a codex chapter and be done with it

They anit a codex chapter
They have to litle troops they don't have scout bikers

That's not what defines a codex chap.....oh I give up

They are simply a codex chapter. They follow the laws of the Codex Astartes. They are 1,000 strong. They aren't that special. They are a codex chapter that's addicted to fire. They follow everything in the codex to a close enough degree to be called a codex chapter. They have different motives, but that's different than being non-codex.

If you want to include some of this stuff, PLEASE give us fluff reasons. Give us where someone OFFICIAL (so Black Library, BRB, etc.) said that these people can do these things. Where does it say Sallies are immune to fire, where does this say they get this stuff, etc. That would get us off your case, because at the moment it looks like you are just making stuff up to make the Salamanders stronger than they should be. If you give me a book, or even better the page number, where it says some of this stuff is used, exists, or the Salamanders are capable of doing it, then I will let you use it as long as it's balanced.

OK? Then I will help you.

At the end of noctrune tu'shan says to vel'conna no salamander can die by fire.
Not brb or a book but the laws of physics the same initive as guard cuse they are more cumbersome due to having a high g inviromet so up side they are stronger.
They can see in the infa red spectrum of light allowing them to have a form of night vision.
By the way they don't have 1,000 men they have 6 of 120 and 1 of 60 = 780.

The problem is that with immunity to fire they will literally be broken. No one will play against you if half their units are guaranteed not to work against you, especially flamer-heavy armies.

I understand you're 12, but imagine if you went against a guy who had immunity to bullets on his units. Its the same thing.

You could just give them +1 to their armor save rolls against Flamer/Heavy Flamer attacks. That'd simplify things a lot.

If you want to do Salamanders, try these things.
-Give them a custom Fire-based weapon, maybe a variant of super-heavy flamer that their Devastators/Tanks can have.
-Flyer with Heavy Flamer
-Tanks with Flamethrowers

The Chapter follows most normal Imperial tactical and strategic dogma, as emphasised in the Codex Astartes, but with only slight variations. The Salamanders have a preference for close-ranged fire fights and use many Melta and Flamer weapons to burn whole swathes of infantry troops and to smash armoured foes. The Salamanders also have an intimate knowledge of the ways of metal and fire, forging great relics and powerful Artificer items. They have more Techmarines than is normal for an Astartes Chapter, although not a disproportionate number. Because each Salamanders Battle-Brother can completely repair, service and modify their own arms, Power Armour and wargear, the Techmarines of the Salamanders are free to craft intricate and powerful items of incredible workmanship and advanced technology. This is most evident in the unusual numbers of Terminators in their force, as well as a greater portion of master-crafted weaponry. Their technological resources are also supplemented by regular trade with the Adeptus Mechanicus, made possible by Nocturne's abundant mineral resources.

Self-reliance and craftsmanship are both highly prized traits within the Salamanders Chapter as their Primarch Vulkan himself was a great Artificer, forging many wonders. The only Primarch able to match Vulkan's skill at crafting was his iron-handed brother Primarch Ferrus Manus of the Iron Hands Legion, although Vulkan himself preferred to work the steel over a flame rather than using advanced machinery, just as he had when he was young.

You're not going to get many serious responses if you ignore all the other advice from people recommending a different course of action.

Seriously, the Sallies stuff over at B&C is pretty excellent, if a little outdated now. Saying its not overpowered enough only shows your inexperience in developing rules.

I'm a big Sallies fan, my favourite chapter by a long shot. However, the last thing I want the Sallies to become is a Space Wolf copy. Picture this; A Drake Lord (Captain) riding a Great ThunderDrake, wearing drake plate armour with a drake scale cloak, swinging his dragonhammer and shooting his drake-pattern melta flamer. It sounds silly right? I think so, and thats exactly what you should avoid. To do that, you need to be subtle and make only small changes to create the right amount of uniqueness without breaking the game or sounding overly childish.

Before continuing on in this, I highly recommend you do more research into rule development. Read other established and highly rated fan dexes (B&C has many, as well as Dakka's own JustDave) and get a feel for how they write their rules. Then read Sally specific rules developed by other people. Then slowly start with a special character or two and go from there.

Right now its kind of a mess and seems squarely on the overpowered side.

Finally, Sallies can die by fire, Tu'Shan was remarking on the nature of the Salamanders chapter, not to be taken literally. They have a higher tolerance of heat, but they can - and do - die by fire. They are also still significantly faster than humans, as noted by I4. The best rule to represent their slightly slowed reflexes is an I3.5, which would need to be worded properly.

As a space wolf player. I approve of what Blacksails said here. Personally, I only think repeating the same words, be it animal, daemon, faction, greater power or what so ever only really fits space wolves and chaos.

Neither of those are typically codex compilant.

But please know, that all codex rules are always based by FIRST writing fluff for the new units, which is why there isn't many new units...

The rules themselves are based on those rules, molded and cleaned to better fit play, and then balanced. That is mostly how I believe GW codices work. Most of them at least.

You could just give them +1 to their armor save rolls against Flamer/Heavy Flamer attacks. That'd simplify things a lot.

that was what i was doing and no i was just going to put captain who could have a drake mount
drake riders insted of bikers
i worded in to the fire of battle
all flamers are +1ap -1 s or i could do what you said
what new units could i use like such and such insted of somthing


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By the way i just wouldnt want to play with bac as its sc are week compared to the normal ones c:sm.


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I 3.5 is very hard to use so we said that a norm noctruneen would be I 2 so a sallie would be I 3

Drake amour might be a idea for master tushan
No way to dragon hammer
Yes to drake scale cloak
No to drake-pattern melta flamer I never even sugested it
And there still caled captain
Grate thunderdrake is a drake mount
Did I mention all of them

Do not, I repeat, do not make some kind of thunderwolf cavalry with drakes. Just don't. Its probably the single worst thing you could do for a Sallies codex.

Ok

How about a deverstator asslt sq
Assult sq
Whith hevey flamers melta guns flame pistols melta pistols and power wepons
Insted of vangaurd veterans

what do you think about the assault deverstators

Sure. Just realize the info you gave us on them is pretty much useless. Kinda needs an actual stat line and points attached to them...if you don't want to write out a stat-line, you could just take the exact stats of a normal SM devastator and edit them a bit if you really want to. But, points needs to be done...