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Thanks for leting me know I mean agaist all flame based wepons.

Right what dose people think to the tactiacl sq rules


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5 man tatical sq 120 points
4X bolters master crafted 60 points
Thunder hammer master crafted + 45
245 point tactical sq
Your sarge can take a drake hide for 30+points
Your sq can have promeathean brandings for 7+ ppm
Drake hide
5++
Promeathean bradings
Fell no pain 4+ against all flame based wepons.

What do people think

I'd simply suggest you use the basic tac squad, or maybe the new DA pricing. I'd go with the basic tac pricing, because I don't know about the DA codex yet.
Just give them the upgrade to master craft one weapon.

How about:
Special weapons (meltaguns, plasmaguns, flamers, etc): 15pts
Heavy weapons (Multimeltas, Plasma cannons etc): 20pts
Melee weapons (for the sarge):
Power weapons: 15pts
Power Fists & Lightning claws: 20pts

Myabe that is over pricing, but you can reduce them, if playtesting proves them to be too much or after you have some other stuff designed.


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Oh, also add that thing that makes them flame resistant, Promethean Brandings (right?). Just specify the rule more accurately.

 LlamaAgility wrote:
I'd simply suggest you use the basic tac squad, or maybe the new DA pricing. I'd go with the basic tac pricing, because I don't know about the DA codex yet.
Just give them the upgrade to master craft one weapon.

How about:
Special weapons (meltaguns, plasmaguns, flamers, etc): 15pts
Heavy weapons (Multimeltas, Plasma cannons etc): 20pts
Melee weapons (for the sarge):
Power weapons: 15pts
Power Fists & Lightning claws: 20pts

Myabe that is over pricing, but you can reduce them, if playtesting proves them to be too much or after you have some other stuff designed.


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Oh, also add that thing that makes them flame resistant, Promethean Brandings (right?). Just specify the rule more accurately.

Yes 90 points can master craft any from the following lists
Special wepons 15 pts
Hevy wepons 20 pts
Power wepons 15 pts
Hammers and fists 20 pts
Sarge can have
Atificer amour 20pts
May have promethean brandings 7 ppm
Promethean brandings confer a 4 + fnp angainst flame based wepons


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Any feed back

Well, I think you should leave it there perhaps? Now I suggest you move on to something else, like HQ so the army will be capable of more originality.

wargey wrote:

Yes 90 points can master craft any from the following lists
Special wepons 15 pts
Hevy wepons 20 pts
Power wepons 15 pts
Hammers and fists 20 pts
Sarge can have
Atificer amour 20pts
May have promethean brandings 7 ppm
Promethean brandings confer a 4 + fnp angainst flame based wepons

Ya know, for the first time I think im actually pretty happy with the rules here. It's well written and balanced (4+ FNP against flame is a cool idea too, not as OP/OTT as no damage, but still getting the "we're fire resistant" across").

Now, I back LlamaAgility. I suggest writing up an HQ so that we have the ability to field a legal army. Then, we are in business haha

Sterngaurd veterans same stats as norm tactiacl sq 90pts
They can take flame pistols or inferno pistols for +20 pts
2 members can take flamers free
2 members can have heavy flamers + 10 pts
Can have promethean brandings +7 ppm
All modles can have a drake hide +10 ppm
Sarge can have artificer amour +20pts
Have jump packs at 3ppm

Firedrakes. 200 pts
Ws 4 bs 4 S 5 T4 I4 W 1 A2 LD 8+ SV 2+/4++
Thunder hammer
Storm bolter
Drake cloak
Can take 1 heavy flamer 10+pts
Can have promeethan brandings 7ppm
Feed back please can I go on to HQ

wargey wrote:
Sterngaurd veterans same stats as norm tactiacl sq 90pts
They can take flame pistols or inferno pistols for +20 pts
2 members can take flamers free
2 members can have heavy flamers + 10 pts
Can have promethean brandings +7 ppm
All modles can have a drake hide +10 ppm
Sarge can have artificer amour +20pts
Have jump packs at 3ppm

Firedrakes. 200 pts
Ws 4 bs 4 S 5 T4 I4 W 1 A2 LD 8+ SV 2+/4++
Thunder hammer
Storm bolter
Drake cloak
Can take 1 heavy flamer 10+pts
Can have promeethan brandings 7ppm
Feed back please can I go on to HQ

Sternguard can't have combi weapons? Is this intentional or a mistake, it's not a bad thing im just curious.

Also, the Firedrakes im guessing are like your terminators (like Wolf Guard to Space Wolves). They actually look pretty good, but I would suggest working the points a bit more. I can get 5 vanilla TH/SS termies for that amount, but the vanilla ones only have S44 not 5.

EDIT: Sorry, saw they don't have SS's and they only have LD8. That's a good trade off, sorry my bad. Continue haha

Why are they S5? There's no need or reason to justify every Fire Drake as S5. Again, I remind you that they are still a codex chapter and use the same general wargear and equipment. They prefer to use the classic TH/SS combo. All they really need is a fire drake cloak option, nothing else. They should be regular terminators from C:SM with one, maybe two different options, but no change to the statline.

All sallies are S5 can I put them at 210pts
They have a drake cloak
Should I give them promethean brandings
They have standered options

Sory missed that
The sterngaurd are the same as a sallie tactical sq
They can have combi bolters +15ppm
Can take power wepons +15ppm
Can take hammers and fists +25ppm

Sallies are not, and should not be S5. There is absolutely no reason to do that; its broken, overpowered, and doesn't even fit the fluff.

Do you understand what S5 represents? The number of S5 marines in all the codices numbers less than half a dozen. They represent the strongest of the strong, and most chapter masters, including Logan Grimnar, aren't even S5. Therefore, the firedrakes, or any Salamander for that matter, shouldn't be S5.

wargey wrote:
All sallies are S5 can I put them at 210pts
They have a drake cloak
Should I give them promethean brandings
They have standered options

Sory missed that
The sterngaurd are the same as a sallie tactical sq
They can have combi bolters +15ppm
Can take power wepons +15ppm
Can take hammers and fists +25ppm

Promethean Brandings? Yep. S5? Nope. S5 is.....really really strong.....TH/SS termies hitting at S5? Just remove my models now and save us time hahaha

Sallies may be stronger than average Space Marines in the fluff, but NOT strong enough to warrant an actual stat change

LlamaAgility told me to have all salamanders at S5 how about T5
and by the way the strongest fighting man is in the salamander chapter.
His name is tu'shan

I was toying with T5 how about that
what HQ should i do first

No, do not change the stats from any of the standard marine stats. Every loyalist marine is S4/T4, there is zero reason for Salamanders to be any different. Once again I am going to state that the Salamanders are still a Codex chapter, and as such, are not as different and unique as you may think they should be.

So no, don't change the statlines for veterans, regular marines, or any unit commonly found in other marine codices, as there is no reason to do.

wargey wrote:
LlamaAgility told me to have all salamanders at S5 how about T5
and by the way the strongest fighting man is in the salamander chapter.
His name is tu'shan

I was toying with T5 how about that
what HQ should i do first

Nope. T5 is even worse, since that effects you all the time. Don't change stats for Normal Marines, they aren't different enough to warrant it.

HQ? Either a Captain or Chapter Master.

Tu'Shan Reagent Of Promeatus 260pts

Ws-5 Bs-4 S-5 T-4 I-5 A-3 W-4 Ld10+ Sv 2+/3++

Titanic might
Lord Of The Firedrakes
all firedrakes can ether be troops or elite this includes firedrakes or sterngaurd
Ew
stand firm
all units are stubborn and/or fearless
Wargear
mantle of the regent
a suit of tda crafted by the first forgefather for the first regent
noctrunes fury
a master crafted th that strikes at I
salamander mantle
this confers a 3++ save
breath of the salamander a master crafted inferno/flame pistol that has 2 shots a turn

wargey wrote:
Tu'Shan Reagent Of Promeatus 260pts

Ws-5 Bs-4 S-5 T-4 I-5 A-3 W-4 Ld10+ Sv 2+/3++

Titanic might
Lord Of The Firedrakes
all firedrakes can ether be troops or elite this includes firedrakes or sterngaurd
Ew
stand firm
all units are stubborn and/or fearless
Wargear
mantle of the regent
a suit of tda crafted by the first forgefather for the first regent
noctrunes fury
a master crafted th that strikes at I
salamander mantle
this confers a 3++ save
breath of the salamander a master crafted inferno/flame pistol that has 2 shots a turn

This is...I dont know where to begin.

First, use the standard Chapter Master statline and do not change it. Do not give him extra strength, or extra toughness, or more attacks. He is a standard Chapter Master, just like Calgar, or Grimnar, or Dante.

I generally recommend people to use a rule of three when assigning special rules and wargear, in that the special rules and wargear the character has should try not to exceed three total. So you can have two special rules/abilites, and one awesome wargear, or whatever.

What you have created is just so wildly broken. An initiative thunder hammer on a chapter master is a combat beatstick, let alone his EW, 2+/3++ and other weapons.

What he should be:

A standard Chapter Master statline in termie armour with a melta pistol (Pistol, R12", S8 AP1, Melta)

Rules:
Regent of Nocturne
Terminators equipped with Thunder Hammer and storm shields may be taken as troops choices if Tu'Shan is in your army.

Forged upon the anvil
Friendly units within 12" of Tu'Shan may re-roll failed pinning tests.

Drakescale cloak
Tu'shan's cloak is made from the largest drake seen on Nocturne in a thousand years, and confers him a 3++

Hammer of Something
His mighty hammer is a master-crafted thunderhammer.

Priced at 250pts.

Done. Nothing over the top, nothing absurdly overpowered, simple, fluffy, and someone might actually be willing to play against it.

Seriously, please, please, please, go do some more research and read some other great fan dexes. Understand how to actually balance something.

I have always thought that scouts don't fit the flavor ofte salamanders. I would let tactical squads and devestators be troop choices.

Ok, I agree now with keeping them at S4. It was merely a suggestion in the first place to make them S5 I3.

But devastators as troops, I'd still say no. There would be no much reason to use tacticals anymore.

Also, a character that makes Assault termies a troop choice, is just really broken.

Design NORMAL HQs first, before you even think about special ones. And finish the codex before yo start making them, thus it becomes easier to give them fitting rules.

 LlamaAgility wrote:
Also, a character that makes Assault termies a troop choice, is just really broken.

Wolf Guard are troops with Logan Grimnar. A few more points than Assault termis, but arguably better anywho.

Space Wolves assault terminators cost around 50pts+.

If sallie terminators cost the same as space marine ones, I can openly state that IMHO they would be incredibly broken. I would not play against such an army.

please remember, this is my personal opinion.

Can I just mention bar the big e Tu'Shan is the strongest man alive.
I think he should have titanic might or S5 instead of ob
or should he have a rule to represent his strong belief in defending all humans bar heretics
and something like he can take artificer sq as elites (sq in artificer amour)

inferno guard 155
Sargent
bolt pistol chain sword artificer amour drake hide
apothocery
bolt pistol nactharium artificer amour drake hide
standard bearer
company banner artificer amour drake cloak
company champion
bolt pistol flame sword artificer amour drake cloak
options
flame pistol 15+pts
inferno pistol 15+pts
power sword 15+pts
Promethean branding's 7+ppm


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I will put up a troops list.

wargey wrote:
Can I just mention bar the big e Tu'Shan is the strongest man alive.

What is this I don't even....where does it EVER say or prove that? If that's not showing true Sallie bias I don't know what will.

I do think he should have something to represent his caring of humans, since he is one of the most Pro-All Human Life space marines. Not sure what it could be though.

wargey wrote:
Can I just mention bar the big e Tu'Shan is the strongest man alive..

Oh christ...

What do you mean.

So I just discovered this thread. This is actually something I've worked on before and put some effort into, so I figured I'd share what I've previously done. Feel free to poach and steal:



Bear in mind the Dak'ir parts were done before the third book in the Salamanders trilogy (which I've still yet to finish).

I have a bunch more, but here's some samples. Enjoy.

Who likes the rules say yes and were you found it were there any others.

@wargey --> I actually wrote these myself. I have a whole codex that i've been working on. Other characters I have in development:

Malaim Argos
Chaplain Elysius An'ahera
Hurculon Praetor (as a Firedrakes Upgrade)

I also have the firedrakes being developed as a unit choice.

In the codex I have fast attacks limited from 0-1

Bikes and Speeders aren't available as fast attack options.

Assault & Vanguard Marines with jump packs are costed at 5pts higher than standard (to reflect fluff)

I've flirted with the Idea of making the Salamanders Techmarines a 1-3 elites option with a Master atificer rule that gives them a weapons upgrade option they confer to the unit (adds digital/master crafted to all models in unit).

wargey wrote:
Can I just mention bar the big e Tu'Shan is the strongest man alive.

This alone, regardless of the other posts with broken and completely unbalanced rules, proves that you should not be making rules before understanding how balance and fluff coincide.

Tu'Shan is a big boy, certainly, but so is every other chapter master. Find me a chapter where their master is described as being short and weedy. I'll save you the effort; there are none. They're all hulking masses of muscle, adepts of war and the mightiest, most cunning of their brethren. That's why they're in charge. So no, he doesn't need S5. Hell, he shouldn't even be swinging a TH at I (not going to mention how its unbalanced), as even the strongest marines still swing power fists and thunder hammers at I1.

Not everything you create for a chapter, or custom rules needs to be crazy over the top and represent EVERYTHING about that character. Subtlety and keeping on eye on balance and playability should always overrule your desire for a powerful beatstick.

Understand that you will be playing this rule set against your friends, who will have to agree to play with it. I can assure they will not be pleased having to learn and keep track of a hundred new special rules you came up with with different names, and how overpowered it is. It simply isn't fun for either side if one side isn't enjoying it. And you know what, with custom rules, you're generally looking to have fun with your friends. So make easy to read and understandable rules that don't deviate too much from the standard rules in other marine books. Don't create too many new things, and finally, make it underpowered before you even make it balanced.

Go read JustDave's three fandexes, and the entire thread for each. Read each comment and their reasoning. Understand balance, and costs, and how to write rules. Seriously. When you write out a unit, write it out as close to how it would be written in a codex. Your posts are still difficult to read and understand.

Th'Shan is a captain not chapter master as they still believe that the primach is still alive.
There favourite fast attack is the land speeder.
But send it over.
By the way salamanders like fast attack because they believe in going forward but they don't use bikes.


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Anyone wondering inferno gaurd are a captins bodygaurd from all 4 tome of fire books