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 BluntmanDC wrote:
Or you could be polite to people who enjoy the setting of the game we play. Its very easy, just make a chapter that has no connection to the space wolves and does not share geneseed, they just fight inba similar manner. They live on a jungle feral world and ride giant raptors instead of wolfs, were raptor horns instead of wolf totems and have raptor scale cloaks instead of furs.

Polite? Who said anything about being rude? It is hardly polite to discount someone who spent months of work on their cool green, jungle space wolves as an opponent because of their own issues with the importance of the fluff. To play a game against that army all that really needs to be told is that the army is built using the space wolves codex. It can be a successor chapter in the mind of that player, or just some completely space wolf unrelated force that is just organized like a great company due to isolation or some other reason. The key is that it is the decision of the player who OWNS the army to decide that and not some other player across the table who obsesses a bit too much and forgets that he is only playing a game with an already made up background to begin with. If it offends the opponents sensibilities then it is most definitely their problem and not the problem on the army owner. That puts the onus of politely dealing with it on them and again, not the army owner. (Now someone will come up with the "what about Nazi guard" position, which is not what we are discussing so doesn't matter at this stage. We are not talking about an overtly offensively decorated army, but an army that someone else takes offense to because it goes against the fluff.)

The Imperium is MASSIVE. Some planets haven't seen contacts fromTerra in millennia. Hardly impossible or even improbable for that matter for an offshoot of a space wolves expeditionary force to have found itself crash landed on a jungle planet and been there long enough to make some changes, but still basically be set up like a great company. Heck GW adds new chapter offshoots all the time when one of their painters comes up with a completely new paint scheme for marines. Even the various marine codecies specifically say they can be used to create your own force that suits your own needs so what exactly is the problem? Don't like that army idea, then don't play against it. Just don't expect the army owner to build their army to meet your needs, because unless everyone plays baseline vanilla ultramarines for every game someone, somewhere isn't going to like your army and something you did with it.

Skriker

 BluntmanDC wrote:

 Skriker wrote:

TheMadHunterHD wrote:
Can i make a custom space wolves chapter with custom colours?

i want to make green space wolves from an planet that has a lot of trees and is a kind of a jungle.

also i need an name for the wolves :p

so let me know what you guys think!

Do what ever you want with your minis, as long as you are up front before the game that the force uses the space wolves codex. Some people will complain that fluffwise there are no Space wolf successor chapters, but so what. You want green space wolves that live on a jungle planet then do that with your figs.

Skriker

BUy some dark elves cold one cavalry for the conversion job done

Or you could be polite to people who enjoy the setting of the game we play. Its very easy, just make a chapter that has no connection to the space wolves and does not share geneseed, they just fight inba similar manner. They live on a jungle feral world and ride giant raptors instead of wolfs, were raptor horns instead of wolf totems and have raptor scale cloaks instead of furs.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BluntmanDC wrote:

 Skriker wrote:

TheMadHunterHD wrote:
Can i make a custom space wolves chapter with custom colours?

i want to make green space wolves from an planet that has a lot of trees and is a kind of a jungle.

also i need an name for the wolves :p

so let me know what you guys think!

Do what ever you want with your minis, as long as you are up front before the game that the force uses the space wolves codex. Some people will complain that fluffwise there are no Space wolf successor chapters, but so what. You want green space wolves that live on a jungle planet then do that with your figs.

Skriker

Or you could be polite to people who enjoy the setting of the game we play. Its very easy, just make a chapter that has no connection to the space wolves and does not share geneseed, they just fight inba similar manner. They live on a jungle feral world and ride giant raptors instead of wolfs, were raptor horns instead of wolf totems and have raptor scale cloaks instead of furs.

Buy some dark elves cold one cavalry and corsairs for the conversion job done.

You can make a Wolf themed chapter, and use the Space Wolves Codex, and not have them have to be related to the Space Wolves in any way.

Which is good since the Space Wolves have no (successful) successor chapters.

Heck, my army is set up to be counts-as for Space Wolves in the case I decide to use that codex. /shrug.

 Skriker wrote:

 BluntmanDC wrote:
Or you could be polite to people who enjoy the setting of the game we play. Its very easy, just make a chapter that has no connection to the space wolves and does not share geneseed, they just fight inba similar manner. They live on a jungle feral world and ride giant raptors instead of wolfs, were raptor horns instead of wolf totems and have raptor scale cloaks instead of furs.

Polite? Who said anything about being rude? It is hardly polite to discount someone who spent months of work on their cool green, jungle space wolves as an opponent because of their own issues with the importance of the fluff. To play a game against that army all that really needs to be told is that the army is built using the space wolves codex. It can be a successor chapter in the mind of that player, or just some completely space wolf unrelated force that is just organized like a great company due to isolation or some other reason. The key is that it is the decision of the player who OWNS the army to decide that and not some other player across the table who obsesses a bit too much and forgets that he is only playing a game with an already made up background to begin with. If it offends the opponents sensibilities then it is most definitely their problem and not the problem on the army owner. That puts the onus of politely dealing with it on them and again, not the army owner. (Now someone will come up with the "what about Nazi guard" position, which is not what we are discussing so doesn't matter at this stage. We are not talking about an overtly offensively decorated army, but an army that someone else takes offense to because it goes against the fluff.)

The Imperium is MASSIVE. Some planets haven't seen contacts fromTerra in millennia. Hardly impossible or even improbable for that matter for an offshoot of a space wolves expeditionary force to have found itself crash landed on a jungle planet and been there long enough to make some changes, but still basically be set up like a great company. Heck GW adds new chapter offshoots all the time when one of their painters comes up with a completely new paint scheme for marines. Even the various marine codecies specifically say they can be used to create your own force that suits your own needs so what exactly is the problem? Don't like that army idea, then don't play against it. Just don't expect the army owner to build their army to meet your needs, because unless everyone plays baseline vanilla ultramarines for every game someone, somewhere isn't going to like your army and something you did with it.

Skriker

Yes the game setting is made up, but most people play 40k, and stay with due to that setting, if something doesn't fit that setting the creator of that fluff is actively being impolite to other users of that activity (if everyone was playing football and you started to pick the ball up and run for a touchdown, you can assume the rest of the people playing have a right to ask you to stop. The same can be said for someone creating a bad fluff army and expecting everyone to want to play with you. In social activities you have to show a level of respect for others, or you will find few people will put up with you).

If you read my post it would show that the second part of your responce is completely pointless. In my post i gave a clear example of how to use a specific chapter codex but have no ties to that chapter, allowing for a fluffy army that fits perfectly well in the in game universe. I have no problem with counts as armies, i have a problem withbpeople who expect you to listen to terrible fluff that doesn't work whilst playing them (I'm happy to play them, i would just ask them not to talk about why x w and z are possible because of a warp storm/time travel etc.)

So no imagination unless it's officially sanctioned?

if something doesn't fit that setting the creator of that fluff is actively being impolite to other users of that activity (if everyone was playing football and you started to pick the ball up and run for a touchdown, you can assume the rest of the people playing have a right to ask you to stop. The same can be said for someone creating a bad fluff army and expecting everyone to want to play with you.

Except those two examples have nothing in common.

40K is a communal activity. You get to have your imagination, but you have a fair obligation to try to make it mesh with the rest of the players' imaginations too.

You share 40K. /shrug


That said, fluff on a back story is a pretty minor gripe unless it's catastrophically bad. I agree with the sentiment that you can just as easily create your own chapter that is "counts as" Space Wolves that have their own unique heritage that doesn't conflict with the "no successors" fluff. But, at the same time, that's a fairly minor bit of the fluff.

I mean, this isn't like the My Little Pony or Hello Kitty armies that are setting murderingly bad...

Exactly. Refusing to play someone because they have an idea that your vision of the game doesn't approve of- but they are still going to follow every appropriate rule of the codex for the army they are fielding seems like an odd way to follow a hobby that has a lot to do with socializing with others.

 Lynata wrote:
I vaguely recall something about GW's fluff mentioning something along the lines of all attempts at creating a Successor Chapter to the Space Wolves having failed badly, likely due to their flawed geneseed.

However, I think it was never actually defined how that "failure" looked like (making it a matter of interpretation), nor when exactly these attempts were made (you could simply play your army as a freshly created Chapter in earlier time, and explain its existence by stating that they only existed for a couple centuries and are not around anymore in M41).

Or you could simply do what Tiarna said and disregard this detail in GW's fluff. Even lots of licensed novels and RPGs continuously take much artistic license from the original material, and as Gav Thorpe once said you as a gamer are intended to "take possession" of the setting and make it your own anyways.

hahah but there 9 feet tall drunken killing machines

 AegisGrimm wrote:
So no imagination unless it's officially sanctioned?

if something doesn't fit that setting the creator of that fluff is actively being impolite to other users of that activity (if everyone was playing football and you started to pick the ball up and run for a touchdown, you can assume the rest of the people playing have a right to ask you to stop. The same can be said for someone creating a bad fluff army and expecting everyone to want to play with you.

Except those two examples have nothing in common.

Ah this old chestnut, imagination has nothing to do with it, the size and breath of the 40k universe is massive and filled with massive open areas of odscure and conjected fluff that can easily be the basis of fluff (renegade space wolves, chaos space wolves are all fine) but when you have actual clear fluff that shows that something doesn't happen inthe universe and you create a peice of fluff that is the opposite to this (such as Space wolf geneseed in future foundings) then you are not being imaginative, you are being a prat.

Take Strikers idea: a space wolf battle group chash ona jungle planet and have no contact with the imperium for so long that they start changing their armour. Well that seems fine until you start to think about it.
Things this fluff causes - So they are now trapped on a inhospitable jungle world (fine for a marine though) this means no access to tech to repair equipment or the vessel they crashed in, no access to equipment used to create further marines.
Implications of this - you now have an army who's fluff means they cannot go off world, so no campaigns. Would have severe limits of army choice for fluff reasons and as the world is so unfindable it would be very unlikely for alien/chaos forces to find and attack.

A person's fluff can be as imaginative as they want, but if it is full of plot holes and inconsistances then its rubbish fluff. Imaginative doesn't equal good.

 BluntmanDC wrote:
A person's fluff can be as imaginative as they want, but if it is full of plot holes and inconsistances then its rubbish fluff. Imaginative doesn't equal good.

Laughing now because this statement completely invalidates all of the official GW fluff too, which is full of plot holes and inconsistencies galore. Also laughing at how extremely you dissected my 2 second quick background to discount it. Are you really that anal about the fluff when it comes to playing an actual game? How do you ever find opponents to play? In case you hadn't noticed little of GW's fluff and details actually hold up to that extreme a dissection either and you accept it just fine. Talk about double standards.

The point here is it isn't up to you how someone *defines* their army from a fluff standpoint as long as they are building their list with an actual codex book and using minis that are easily idenitifiable and WYSIWYG. Their belief in what their force is has ZERO impact on how the game plays, because even the GW fluff doesn't directly impact most codex lists or how they play on the table. It isn't as if this guy wanted to show up with his own homemade codex list and a crazy force that had nothing to do with the fluff at all. He wants to play a force of space wolves painted green. How does space marine minis on the table, organized like space wolves in any way, shape or form ruin the setting at all? The simple answer is they don't.

Sure you can be as anal as you want as a fluff nazi, but that still gives you zero control over what someone else does with their minis or how the rest of the community approaches the game. I'd be willing to say that 99% of the OPs opponents will be quite fine playing games with his green space wolves as long as he follows his codex and the units are identifiable. Which means the 1% of people who gripe about how his army goes against the fluff will not impact his gaming fun much at all.

Skriker

Dude here is one brilliant work :
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=6400028-gws

btw I will also make SW succesor chapter "feth the fluff rules", it's your mind....

Their belief in what their force is has ZERO impact on how the game plays, because even the GW fluff doesn't directly impact most codex lists or how they play on the table. It isn't as if this guy wanted to show up with his own homemade codex list and a crazy force that had nothing to do with the fluff at all. He wants to play a force of space wolves painted green. How does space marine minis on the table, organized like space wolves in any way, shape or form ruin the setting at all?

How? Because gamer nerds seem obligated to take the high ground on what they think others should be able to do.

 Skriker wrote:

 BluntmanDC wrote:
A person's fluff can be as imaginative as they want, but if it is full of plot holes and inconsistances then its rubbish fluff. Imaginative doesn't equal good.

Laughing now because this statement completely invalidates all of the official GW fluff too, which is full of plot holes and inconsistencies galore. Also laughing at how extremely you dissected my 2 second quick background to discount it. Are you really that anal about the fluff when it comes to playing an actual game? How do you ever find opponents to play? In case you hadn't noticed little of GW's fluff and details actually hold up to that extreme a dissection either and you accept it just fine. Talk about double standards.

The point here is it isn't up to you how someone *defines* their army from a fluff standpoint as long as they are building their list with an actual codex book and using minis that are easily idenitifiable and WYSIWYG. Their belief in what their force is has ZERO impact on how the game plays, because even the GW fluff doesn't directly impact most codex lists or how they play on the table. It isn't as if this guy wanted to show up with his own homemade codex list and a crazy force that had nothing to do with the fluff at all. He wants to play a force of space wolves painted green. How does space marine minis on the table, organized like space wolves in any way, shape or form ruin the setting at all? The simple answer is they don't.

Sure you can be as anal as you want as a fluff nazi, but that still gives you zero control over what someone else does with their minis or how the rest of the community approaches the game. I'd be willing to say that 99% of the OPs opponents will be quite fine playing games with his green space wolves as long as he follows his codex and the units are identifiable. Which means the 1% of people who gripe about how his army goes against the fluff will not impact his gaming fun much at all.

Skriker

Oh just read my comments on this thread, where i clearly say i would have no problem playing anyone with this type of army. I just don't want to listen to them justify their army's fluff. It is easy to seperate the tabletop element from the game from the fluff. My point is if a person does not actually care about the background of the 40k universe, why actually make up fluff for your army to begin with?

 BluntmanDC wrote:
. I just don't want to listen to them justify their army's fluff

Oh god this. A local player (the only one there that day) made me look through his power point presentation on his home brew chapter before I could get a game. It was a sort of torture. If I'm interested I will ask.

He can make whatever army he wants, as long as I know what the units are, I don't care about the fluff.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Oh god this. A local player (the only one there that day) made me look through his power point presentation on his home brew chapter before I could get a game. It was a sort of torture. If I'm interested I will ask.

He can make whatever army he wants, as long as I know what the units are, I don't care about the fluff.

Wow you actually sat through it? You are a better man than I. I get to sit through enough pointless power point presentations during work, not going to do it at the game store. That is an extreme that people do not need to go to. Bully to him for going the extra distance for army detail, but a power point presentation? Really??

Skriker

Guys - I'think that most of the senior members on this forum (even kids) can write better fluff then some BL/GW authors, and what they are doing, is no better then a good old homebrew story...
Set of rules? Really ? After Ward there are no rules, only special character centric universe.....So I think you shoud do whatever you want to....