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I was sitting on the couch watching Christmas Vacation when a thought suddenly came to me... What if I started a 'Who Would Win' series? (a little random to think about at that time but I'm going with it ) I have no idea if this has been done before, which it probably has, but here's how mine will work. I will give two opposing forces and you all tell me who you think would win and why. If at all possible, I would also like somewhat fluff-based reasons, not a list of special rules that each unit is affected by on the tabletop. Feel free to add a story to depict the fight if you want.

Okay, so the first match-up is 10 Assault Marines v 1 Ork Warboss and a 4-Nob entourage. The Assault Marine Sergeant has a Power Fist and Combat shield, the remaining Assault Marines have the basic Chainsword-and-Bolt Pistol loadout. The Warboss has a Power Klaw and the Nobz have Choppas and Sluggas.

It woyld probably come down to who gets the charge, but my teef are bet on the orkz.

Depends on the charge, so I'd say assault marines.... but if they both just casually walked up to each other and got all choppy.... still I'd have to say ASM's.

I'll give it to the orks. My boss always does ludicrous things in CC.

From a fluff standpoint, I guess it would depend on the Warboss but this scenario seems a bit biased towards SM. A nob is about equal to a space marine in terms of combat prowess in my opinion so really it's 1 Warboss vs. 5 Assault Marines and a Power Fist Sergeant.

Give the WB Mega armour, and then it's be about fair IMO.

well by mathhammer and the assumption that the sgt and boss are in a challenge, as well as nobs charging in:

assault marines have initiative and deal 4 wounds (4.5 rounded up is 5 odds of saving one is about 1 wound.) the sgt deals 1 wound on the warboss.

nobs return attacks (the remaining 2) deal 3 wounds, the boss kills the sgt (failing one save out of 3) for a total of 4 wounds.

so round one goes to the assualt marines. odds are in favor of a locked combat.

remaining 6 assault marines have initiative, dealing 3 wounds again. leaving 1 nob with a wound and the warboss.

the nobs 4 attacks deal 1 wound (on 4s both to hit and wound this time so its half by half) the warboss deals roughly 2 wounds

from experience the 1 wound will be saved on a 3+ leaving the warboss and nob to lose again. but saving 8 on 2d6 is still favorable

round 3, 4 assault marines deal 2 wounds, nob goes down, warboss takes another wound, warboss swings and takes out 2. tie.

round 4 2 assault marines swing and deal 1 wound odds are still unfavorable but could happen that the warboss gets a lucky 6 and kills off the remaining 2 marines.

so its a tough one really. if the assault marines get the charge it will easily go to the assault marines, the nobs on the other hand, will be hard pressed to take them out even on the charge. The sgt doesnt need a powerfist as it wont ID the warboss, and the boss would be stupid not to challenge him, even with a stormshield.

but to be fair, your using an 85pt warboss and 40pts of nobz. vs 230pts of assault marines. if you evened the points up, your looking at 7 nobs and a warboss with a PK and heavy armor. thats an easy win in the case of the orks

It would realllly depend on the charge.
ASM's get the charge, they get 10 hammer of wrath hits.
Nobs get the charge? ASMs are lunchmeat

 iGuy91 wrote:
It would realllly depend on the charge.
ASM's get the charge, they get 10 hammer of wrath hits.
Nobs get the charge? ASMs are lunchmeat

do people forget that standard nobs go last either way now (since furious charge does not affect initiative anymore) and base 6+ save is rarely going to save anything? being charged, assault marines get 18 attacks at I4 which hit and wound half the time. so 4-5 wounds are dealth with you saving 1 on at best means most likely 2 nobs die before taking a swing. the nobs returning 5 attacks each (all 2 of them) landing half the time and wounding 66% of the time, so about 3 wounds dealt, but when you save on 3's 2 of them will most likely save. that leaves 8 marines vs 2 nobs. when you go into round two, nobs get substantially less effective. 1 less str and 1 few attacks to throw around, not to mention how many will die before swinging (still go after marines)

If they were carrying 'eavy armor or cybork bodies, it would be a different story. but unless you can get some lucky 6's they aren't going to last. its the warboss's pk that would tear marines apart, but he's going to be locked in combat if the marine player is at least halfway competent.

Way uneven points. As it is now Marines, if the points were even Probably Orks, maybe more nobz and add in some Hvy Armour and PKs.

Ok, so I definitely gave the advantage to the marines. I have decided that just before combat, the Orks gained 2 more Nobz with Sluggas and Choppas. This should make things a bit more even, points excluded.

Well with the new info...

Nobz win in 3 rounds if they charge. Assault marines get HoW decimating Nobz from 7 to 4 since it totals 12 wounds (counting thier HoW and Ini strikes together) of which the orks will save 2. But this goes back to the original numbers afterwards and believe it or not, That was the advantage the orks needed to kill the ASM, Leaving the warboss with 1-2 wounds and taking 4 rounds of combat.

so if the charge happened at the top of turn 2, the warboss would walk away at the bottom of turn 3. If the orks charge, its top of turn 3.

The sarge, really can't do much in this situation as he will be locked into combat with a T5 character and the warboss number of attacks will make him fail a save at least once. Most likely in the first round of combat. now if you were to give him lightning claws instead, his higher initiative (and LC rerolls) will most likely down the warboss instead. That turns the tide and allows the marines to win it. What wipes out the marines when i do the math, is the warboss with PK. no armor save means they die quickly as there is just not enough volume of attacks being dealt to the marines to force the required failed saves.

Paitryn wrote:
The sgt doesnt need a powerfist as it wont ID the warboss, and the boss would be stupid not to challenge him, even with a stormshield.

Actually, the Boss would be stupid TO challenge him. The Boss can potentially kill 4 assault marines, why waste that on a single sergent (one who's got an invulnerable save moreover) ?

Challenges suck for Orks, and should be avoided most of the times.