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Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

The post-Heresy Imperium makes use of psykers outside of Astropaths and Navigators (Librarians, Sanctioned Psykers, and so on) even though the use of psychic powers were outlawed at Nikaea. Heck, many Inquisitors are psykers themselves. If so, when and who abolished/amended the Edicts?

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

That is a great mystery yet to be unveiled. I suppose at the latest, the Edict was "softened" when Guilliman promulgated Codex Astartes since he obviously directs Chapters to train and deploy Librarians. Whether he had the Emperor's assent/approval is unknown. There are some who argue that the difference between the pre-Codex and Codex Librarians was so great that the Edict does not really contemplate Codex Librarians. This seems rather weak to me. The other piece of the puzzle is that the SW obviously still used psykers after the Edict, even at the burning of Propsero. My own interpretation is that the Edict was basically a judgment against what Magnus was doing even if the Emperor said he wasn't censuring anybody in particular. His explicit command, at least in A Thousand Sons was that no Legion would maintain a Librarius Department. According to the strict letter of the Edict, therefore, whether a Codex Chapter might do so was not actually decided since Codex Chapters did not then exist except in Guilliman's mind. Some people use this as evidence for Guilliman being disloyal but that seems weak to me, as well. This is also probably how Russ could get away with still deploying psykers since he didn't seem to maintain a "Librarius Department." We have no evidence that Russ was disloyal or that the Emperor knew/cared about SW psykers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/04 05:49:40


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





imo it was a gradual process and there's no official date it got swept under the rug. You can probably trace the decline of Nikean edicts with the rise of the Ecclesiarchy in M32 though.

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Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

The Codex has been extensively expanded over the millennia so that's certainly possibly.

   
Made in ca
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




Vancouver, BC

I think what's his name Malcador had something to do with it
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





I was doing some research on this question and from what I found it seems that after the Emperor was ensconced in the golden throne and the IoM was in civil war the various factions started using whatever tools they needed to fight back against the forces of Chaos. Durring The Battle of Calth where the Word Bearers attacked and are summoning daemons, we have the account of the Primarch of the Ultramarines saying that his best tool to defeat these warp creatures has been denied to him, his Librarians. Since He was also writing up the Codex Astartes for the remaining marine chapters. He fixed the obvious problem and re-instituted the Librarius in his Codex. Basically taking the advice that the White Scars Stormseer Targutai Yesugei gave at Nikaea. Psychers are essential to the IoM and Librarians of the Astartes are potent weapons that must be forged like blades in their training and their tempering. Sorcery is outlawed for its dangers as always but what a Librarian is trained to do is not sorcery and not evil.

(page 352 - 353 in A Thousand Sons by Graham McNeill)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/04 06:42:49



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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I believe the deal is that the Legions were banned from using Psykers. Chapters were not.

And Malcador may have set into motion a suspension of the edict in the event of problems, which the aftermath of the battle of terra would qualify for.

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Made in hr
Hellacious Havoc




Commorragh

IMHO every legion broke the edict during heresy (Lion killing a librarian for not usinf pp, BA reviving Sang etc.) - but only Magnus was under close watch, and Nikaea was his trial, not others even though it seems that general ruling was made...

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-- First Captain Sevatar, when asked why the Night Lords aren't the Emperor's sanction force against other Legions.

 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





The Beach

 Manchu wrote:
That is a great mystery yet to be unveiled.
This is the correct answer.

Though we've started to see hints of why it is eventually repealed. Guilliman's beliefs that the Librarians were the best weapon against the Daemons the Word Bearers have unleashed and they had been denied due to the Edict. (Know No Fear) And then there is the fact that Rubio is given permission by Malcador to use his powers ("Garro: Legion of One").

So, at some point, and I'm guessing it is before the Battle of Terra, the Emperor will rescind the order, realizing he cannot prevent humanity from encountering the powers of Chaos.

But it's all speculation. The way some of the Black Library books have gone, I assume it's just as likely that Alpharius will reverse the Edict disguised as the Emperor.

Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

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Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

The Emperor wrote:Let it be known that no one shall suffer censure, for this conclave is to serve Unity, not discord. But no more shall the threat of sorcery be allowed to taint the warriors of the Astartes. Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ any psychic powers.
A Thousand Sons, p. 355, my emphasis

Again, the letter of the law is that no Legion can have a Libarius department and everyone who was in such a department may no longer use psychic powers.

So RAW, (1) whether a Chapter can have a Librarius depatment is not covered and (2) psykers who were not formerly part of such departments are not covered.

You think Guilliman would have overlooked this? The only way to violate this post-Codex is if Space Marines formerly part of the Legion Librarius department were reinstated to the Chapter Librarius department or otherwise used psychic powers. So all Guilliman needed to do was recruit new psykers for his Chapter Librarius department.

In this way, the Edict need never have been amended or violated to get us to the situation of M42 -- even regarding the founding of the Grey Knights by Malcador (unless one of his recruits was formerly a part of a Legion's Libarius department and used psychic powers while a Grey Knight). So we may already have the answer without need of further revelations. Of course, that doesn't mean there are no further revelations to come; it just means there are not necessarily contradictions (that I am aware of) that require further revelations to explain them away.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/04 08:02:57


   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

@Manchu - a loophole in that while legions could not use Librarians but Chapters can? Or for that matter Sanctioned Psykers and Inquisitors can use their powers? Makes sense. I like it. +1 to you

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

I'm a lawyer in real life, although I don't play one on TV.

   
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





 Garvy wrote:
IMHO every legion broke the edict during heresy (Lion killing a librarian for not usinf pp

He killed a Chaplain.

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Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Ottawa, ON

 Manchu wrote:
I'm a lawyer in real life, although I don't play one on TV.


The fact that you're a lawyer and your avatar is Judge Dredd makes me nervous.

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Made in us
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Solahma






RVA

 Mr Nobody wrote:
The fact that you're a lawyer and your avatar is Judge Dredd makes me nervous.
Feeling guilty?

   
 
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