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thanx for the feed back in the last post so lets see if this Army list is any better


Hq
Commander Dante 225

Elites
Furioso Dred w/ blood talons 125
Furioso Dred w/ blood talons 125
Furioso Dred librarian 175

Troops
Assault squad (5) Sgt pw 115
Assault squad (10) 2 melta sgt pw 225
Assault squad (10) 2 meltas sgt pw 225
Assault squad (10) 2 meltas sgt pw 225
sanguine guard w/ banner 230

Fast
BAAl Pred ac and heavy bolters 145
BAAL Pred ac and heavy bolters 145

Heavy
Stormraven Gunship TL Mulimeltas Tl las cannons w/ typhoon missiles ex armor and hurricane bolters 270
Stormraven Gunship TL Mulimeltas Tl las cannons w/ typhoon missiles ex armor and hurricane bolters 270

how about this list what should i change or replace? tatic ideas is it good
advice please thanx

Wow 2500 points! Massive lists are go!

I didn't see your last post, but here is my take:

Okay, so, personally I'm not a great fan of Dante, he's pointy and strikes at I1 due to his Axe. However one nice little trick is he (and his unit!) doesn't scatter, and since he has a Infurnus Pistol, you can drop him down with a something full of Melta (like a 2 melta assault squad) and send him tank hunting. Alteratively take an honour guard with 4 meltas, and do the same job. Honour guard have the advantage of a free priest (well, sort of) which is one thing your list lacks. Priests in BA are great, not as great as they used to be I admit, but you're still keeping of third of the guys you would otherwise lose (on average), I usually run 2 with jps and pws at 1500, I'd probably be tempted to take atleast 3 at this point level.

The storm ravens don't need the add-ons in my opinion, save yourself 140 points and take them as they come.

Hmmm...I don't run Baals, so can't really comment, I prefer the infantry choices, Vanguard with pws are pointy but can be a barrel of laughs if they DS and assault. If your want something shooty in the fast slot I would consider attack bikes, a squad of 3 w/ hbs only sets you back 120pt, and you're putting out 9HB shots and 3 tl bolter shots a turn (6 tl bolter shots if you're close enough), bear in mind bikes get +1t and they 2 wounds, so are probably more durable than Baals...A good choice for anti-infantry if you've got Dante popping vehicles.

I would consider DC at this point level, but that would probably involve a massive re-think on your list...Maybe.

D

Thats why im using Danta because he won't scatter and i can just put him and the unit he's with anywhere

Do you think honor guard are better than sanguine guard?
i understand poetical of dropping 4 meltas behind a tank
but i rather like sanguine i see them as like a flying terminator

storm-raven i think your right i could get rid of the extra armor and typhoon missiles

i could drop the furioso librarian and add priests
but i like the idea of a liberian in a dred although i probably will change for the priests thought I'm not entirely sure

Honour Guard probably aren't 'better' as a unit vs Sang Guard, but if the purpose of the unit is an alpha-strike tank-hunter unit then they're probably better equiped. Sure they don't have a 2+, but they will you'll have 4 melta weapons with 12", (Let's ingore dante for the moment), you'll be getting FNP from the Sang Novitiate and they'll need JPs to DS with Dante, so that rocks up at 205pts.

Whereas Sang Guard are 200pts off the bat, have no FNP, You'll be spending 10pts for a Infurnus Pistol each(same cost as a melta gun for the honour guard, which has a shorter range), or can go for 10pts each on a power fist..eitherway you're probably looking at 250 (or 300 if you went infurnus & powerfist on everyone!)...

At the end of the day if you're taking Dante it's probably worth taking some Sang Guard as a nails troop choice, but to take them then use them to tank hunt (meaning they probably won't last the game) seems counter-productive.

As for the Libby Dread, you're already taking to Furioso (presumably to ride in the Storm Ravens), which means Libby Dread will either be foot slogging, or you'll be using his 1 power to gets wings of sangunius...If you were going to take a Libby Dread he really needs to be in a pod...

He's a 2500 list based on your themes that may be more effective

HQ
Dante

Elites:
2 x Furisos, H. Flamer, Talons

3 x Priest, JPs, PWs

Troops
3 x Assault Squad, 10 man, flamer/melta, sgt pw
1 x Sang Guard, Banner

Fast:
2x Attack Bike Squads (3 bikes in each)

Heavy:
2 x Stormraven

2500 on the money.

D

Are you running acute, reflex or obtuse angles?

Really, the biggest problems with your list are first of all the Baal Preds- Preds are the most overrated unit in all of 40k, and here, you're paying for a tank 5 points less than a Leman Russ, that is a terrible infantry killer with worse armour, weaponry and versatility (LR can take on infantry and vehicles) so you can uh...go faster? its absolutely pointless because you don't get rewards for shooting at either side of infantry squads, and its not worth the 50 or so points just so you *might* get to shoot at side armour once with an AC. Getting up "into the action" is pointless because you've got minumum 36'' range. You're far, far better off with Land Speeders or Devastators.

Normally I would suggest never ever taking Scouts, but here a single Sniper Scouts squad with missile launcher would be ideal as a backboard objective holder, so you don't have to sacrifice an objective at the game start so you don't have to sacrifice an assault squad.

A trio of footslogging Dreadnoughts sounds like a bad idea. They're slow and easy targets, dividing your main force into two elements your opponent can easily deviate his firepower between, while making you lack any turn 1 firepower, meaning your opponent is nice and cosy because there are no immediate threats, and he gets to cherry pick between obliterating your infantry and obliterating one or two of your dreads. I would say at least drop pod one Dread like a multi melta dread or combi weapon Sternguard squad to nuetralize one of his strongest units turn 1. If you wreck a Leman Russ that could have pie plated half an Assault Squad, you've gotten a huge advantage.

How is the predator overrated? Who said it was awesome? But it is one of the more point efficient delivery systems of heavy weapons for the space marines. Also, don't underestimate how resilient AV 13 can be.

The original author has reposted this request, I think.

Martel732 wrote:
How is the predator overrated? Who said it was awesome? But it is one of the more point efficient delivery systems of heavy weapons for the space marines. Also, don't underestimate how resilient AV 13 can be.

The original author has reposted this request, I think.

Everyone treats them as the best thing since sliced bread, and I don't think its point efficient at all. The Dakka Pred is neither good at taking out light vehicles or taking out infantry, its just turd. A good unit needs to be a strong versatile choice or be so effective at its single purpose that taking it is viable. A Devastator squad with 4 ML's is a far better investment than a Pred, its about 50% more reliable light AT, and it can also do effective anti-horde/MEQ. A Thunderfire cannon is a far better general purpose anti infantry weapon, that can also disrupt a squad's movement for a turn psychologically. AV13 is vulnerable because missile launcher equivalents are damaging it on a 1/3 chance (and this is the most abundant type of AT bearing in mind) and Lacannons damage it 50% of the time. With just 3 hullpoints, its not going to last.

Predators are mediocre for vanilla marines, but for the blood angels they are quite nice. Being able to move 6" and have full firepower is huge. In practice, I find this ability is more valuable than the statistical advantage of the 4 missile launchers.

I prefer the auto/las predator to the Baal predator in general. The ability to get those the heavy weapon shots on the move is quite nice. Plus lascannons penetrate 2+ armor, something that krak missiles can not.

No single marine tank stands up to fire. I agree. This is why armor saturation is an important concept; you have to stress their anti-tank resources, since many marine killing weapons are also anti-tank.

Note that the Baal Pred is significantly more effective than a villa marine dakka pred due to it being in the fast attack slot and being fast. And I find it does a find job vs both infantry and light vehicles. Both for an all comers list, I'll take the auto/las first.