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No, they aren't.
Black Templars, maybe (though I really doubt it), but not the Space Marines as a whole.

Show me one instance in fluff where the Space Marines shot their own men.

One of our strongest proponents of shooting at one's own troops was a Deathwing player. He thought it quite reasonable to bathe a terminator vs. genestealer melee in flames as his troops were so much more likely to survive the flames than the genestealers. Hard to argue with that.

 amanita wrote:
One of our strongest proponents of shooting at one's own troops was a Deathwing player. He thought it quite reasonable to bathe a terminator vs. genestealer melee in flames as his troops were so much more likely to survive the flames than the genestealers. Hard to argue with that.

Won't that be really unfair on the genestealers? I mean, the only real defense they have against shooting is to get into C&C asap. Allowing them to be fried in close combat doesn't seem to be that fair on the nid player.

Wound an ally, moves to desperate allies?

Makes sense to me.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No, they aren't.
Black Templars, maybe (though I really doubt it), but not the Space Marines as a whole.

Show me one instance in fluff where the Space Marines shot their own men.

Yes they are. The Imperium is evil facist theocracy, fluff is propaganda. It's evil fighting evil, evil everywhere.

Even if not they are still fanatical enough to kill their own to win or just to kill the hated enemy. Having the choice of dying to the last one with all the consequences like additional millions of people dying vs sacrificing their own unit, the obvious choice is the latter in the world of only war. It is imo fierytalish otherwise and doesn't fit the grimdark.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 amanita wrote:
One of our strongest proponents of shooting at one's own troops was a Deathwing player. He thought it quite reasonable to bathe a terminator vs. genestealer melee in flames as his troops were so much more likely to survive the flames than the genestealers. Hard to argue with that.

Won't that be really unfair on the genestealers? I mean, the only real defense they have against shooting is to get into C&C asap. Allowing them to be fried in close combat doesn't seem to be that fair on the nid player.

The lot if things in the game would have to be rewritten, point costs droped for CC units etc to compensate for the change.

There have been cases where entire chapters of space marines have fought until their doom and been completely wiped out. This could be a smaller version of that. A rule like that goes something like, I'll hold them down, you finish them or something. Make it seem heroic for the sm, rather than slaughtering your own guys.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No, they aren't.
Black Templars, maybe (though I really doubt it), but not the Space Marines as a whole.

Show me one instance in fluff where the Space Marines shot their own men.

Yes they are. The Imperium is evil facist theocracy, fluff is propaganda. It's evil fighting evil, evil everywhere.

Even if not they are still fanatical enough to kill their own to win or just to kill the hated enemy. Having the choice of dying to the last one with all the consequences like additional millions of people dying vs sacrificing their own unit, the obvious choice is the latter in the world of only war. It is imo fierytalish otherwise and doesn't fit the grimdark.

That made no sense how what so-ever.
You appear to not understand how the IoM works, or the nature of the Space Marines. The Space Marines are not just some cannon fodder; they are humanity's finest soldiers, and are extremely difficult and expensive to make.
It will be like loading an Abrams tank full of high explosives and detonating it. It's just not tactical, economic or, well, intelligent.

Try making another thread asking if the Space Marines would be willing to shoot at their own. Continuing it here will just derail the thread.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 amanita wrote:
One of our strongest proponents of shooting at one's own troops was a Deathwing player. He thought it quite reasonable to bathe a terminator vs. genestealer melee in flames as his troops were so much more likely to survive the flames than the genestealers. Hard to argue with that.

Won't that be really unfair on the genestealers? I mean, the only real defense they have against shooting is to get into C&C asap. Allowing them to be fried in close combat doesn't seem to be that fair on the nid player.

The lot if things in the game would have to be rewritten, point costs droped for CC units etc to compensate for the change.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No, they aren't.
Black Templars, maybe (though I really doubt it), but not the Space Marines as a whole.

Show me one instance in fluff where the Space Marines shot their own men.

Yes they are. The Imperium is evil facist theocracy, fluff is propaganda. It's evil fighting evil, evil everywhere.

Even if not they are still fanatical enough to kill their own to win or just to kill the hated enemy. Having the choice of dying to the last one with all the consequences like additional millions of people dying vs sacrificing their own unit, the obvious choice is the latter in the world of only war. It is imo fierytalish otherwise and doesn't fit the grimdark.

That made no sense how what so-ever.
You appear to not understand how the IoM works, or the nature of the Space Marines. The Space Marines are not just some cannon fodder; they are humanity's finest soldiers, and are extremely difficult and expensive to make.
It will be like loading an Abrams tank full of high explosives and detonating it. It's just not tactical, economic or, well, intelligent.

Try making another thread asking if the Space Marines would be willing to shoot at their own. Continuing it here will just derail the thread.

For you and your interpretation of 40k. Mine is pretty different, though I admit I discard some finer parts of fluff like Pirates of Caribean in space er I mean Wards Necrons for example or some knightish nice writing but the fluff is not that much unified anyway. And no it would be like nuking the area overrun by enemy despite units of Abrams tanks still there, marines are the best but they fight the worst threats so stoping the Tyranid invasion at a price of 10 marines out of 1000 instead of loosing half the company and a war is quite economical actualy and not that stupid at all.

Also it's not derailing the thread as the question on whether the rule should be universal or not is part of the discussion, imo.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
That still doesn't fix the problem of the genestealers (or any C&C orientated unit) being completely useless as they'll be butchered the moment they get in range.

4+ save could help, also setting up genestealers so Terminators/ Marines would be hit first (assuming assigning wounds to models from the closest). But yes you'd have to compensate a lot, maybe friendly units being auto wounded as being shot at the back and only throw saves or sth.