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Made in ca
Scuttling Genestealer




Ontario

So I got into a rules question with some guys at my FLGS, and wanted another take on it. Basically, the argument was that the Legion of the Damned don't benefit from Vulkan's special rule allowing them to have twin linked meltas and flamers and whatnot. Their argument was that because they don't have Combat Tactics they can't trade it for Vulkan's rule, but I argue that they do get the benefit because the rule doesn't say exchange it, it just says that they lose it. It evens says right in the rule ALL flamers, Heavy flamers etc...

Here's a direct quote from the FAQ. If I'm not allowed to post this tell me and i'll remove it.

Page 93 – Vulkan He’stan, Chapter Tactics.
Change the first sentence to read “If you include Vulkan
He’stan in your army then all friendly units chosen from Codex:
Space Marines lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all
thunder hammers carried by friendly models from Codex: Space
Marines gain the Master Crafted special rule and all flamers,
heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas carried by friendly
models from Codex: Space Marines have the Twin-Linked special
rule”.

So, who's right?

Salamanders - 4500 pts
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Vampire Counts - 2500 pts Sold
Ogre Kingdoms - 4000 pts 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

 Mongooli wrote:
So I got into a rules question with some guys at my FLGS, and wanted another take on it. Basically, the argument was that the Legion of the Damned don't benefit from Vulkan's special rule allowing them to have twin linked meltas and flamers and whatnot. Their argument was that because they don't have Combat Tactics they can't trade it for Vulkan's rule, but I argue that they do get the benefit because the rule doesn't say exchange it, it just says that they lose it. It evens says right in the rule ALL flamers, Heavy flamers etc...

Here's a direct quote from the FAQ. If I'm not allowed to post this tell me and i'll remove it.

Page 93 – Vulkan He’stan, Chapter Tactics.
Change the first sentence to read “If you include Vulkan
He’stan in your army then all friendly units chosen from Codex:
Space Marines lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all
thunder hammers carried by friendly models from Codex: Space
Marines gain the Master Crafted special rule and all flamers,
heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas carried by friendly
models from Codex: Space Marines have the Twin-Linked special
rule”.

So, who's right?


It doesn't matter that they don't have it. It works on Dreads just fine as.
It works on LotD just fine

   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Glendale, AZ

 Mongooli wrote:
So I got into a rules question with some guys at my FLGS, and wanted another take on it. Basically, the argument was that the Legion of the Damned don't benefit from Vulkan's special rule allowing them to have twin linked meltas and flamers and whatnot. Their argument was that because they don't have Combat Tactics they can't trade it for Vulkan's rule, but I argue that they do get the benefit because the rule doesn't say exchange it, it just says that they lose it. It evens says right in the rule ALL flamers, Heavy flamers etc...

Here's a direct quote from the FAQ. If I'm not allowed to post this tell me and i'll remove it.

Page 93 – Vulkan He’stan, Chapter Tactics.
Change the first sentence to read “If you include Vulkan
He’stan in your army then all friendly units chosen from Codex:
Space Marines lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all
thunder hammers carried by friendly models from Codex: Space
Marines gain the Master Crafted special rule and all flamers,
heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas carried by friendly
models from Codex: Space Marines have the Twin-Linked special
rule”.

So, who's right?


Works perfectly fine on the LotD. Would work on Allies too, if it weren't for those damned FAQ's.

Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Does "instead" not mean "in place of"?
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





It does. In place of combat tactics on all friendly units from C:SM, all thunder hammers are master crafted and all flamers, heavy flamers, melta guns and multimeltas are twin linked.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in ie
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Ireland

The models with x loose it, instead of models with combat tactics you get master crafted and twin-linked weapons instead.
The two are related but separate effects. If somehow you have no models with combat tactics in a C:SM army you can still include vulkan to get the effect.

It's not the size of the blade, it's how you use it.
2000+
1500+
2000+

For all YMDC arguements remember: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbd3E6tK2U

My blog: http://dublin-spot-check.blogspot.ie/ 
   
Made in im
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Liverpool

How so? You're exchanging one or the other, hence the "instead".
The twin-linking can't take the place of Combat Tactics, if there's no Combat Tactics in the first place. They are related, and intact dependent (otherwise they couldn't say instead).
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 grendel083 wrote:
How so? You're exchanging one or the other, hence the "instead".
The twin-linking can't take the place of Combat Tactics, if there's no Combat Tactics in the first place. They are related, and intact dependent (otherwise they couldn't say instead).

You're misreading it. Models don't trade combat tactics for twin linking - your army does.
All units lose combat Tactics.
All things are twin linked.


My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in ie
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Ireland

You're not exchanging one for the other as is the case with many of the other abilities as that goes on a unit basis. You are removing one from the units in the army with combat tactics and giving something else to the entire army. If you were exchanging then units that don't have combat tactics couldn't make use of the buffs.

It's not a swap a for b, like with Shrike, it's drop a also certain weapons get this.

It's not the size of the blade, it's how you use it.
2000+
1500+
2000+

For all YMDC arguements remember: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbd3E6tK2U

My blog: http://dublin-spot-check.blogspot.ie/ 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





rigeld2 wrote:
 grendel083 wrote:
How so? You're exchanging one or the other, hence the "instead".
The twin-linking can't take the place of Combat Tactics, if there's no Combat Tactics in the first place. They are related, and intact dependent (otherwise they couldn't say instead).

You're misreading it. Models don't trade combat tactics for twin linking - your army does.
All units lose combat Tactics.
All things are twin linked.


^ This.
   
Made in au
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.

Wasn't it basically the same before the FAQ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/09 04:33:08


 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Glendale, AZ

 Bausk wrote:
Wasn't it basically the same before the FAQ?
yes. All the FAQ does is specifically limit the benefit to units/models from C:SM.
   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

If you include VulkanHe’stan in your army then all friendly units chosen from Codex:
Space Marines lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all
thunder hammers carried by friendly models from Codex: Space
Marines gain the Master Crafted special rule and all flamers,
heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas carried by friendly
models from Codex: Space Marines have the Twin-Linked special
rule.


How did this even come up?

All friendly units lose combat tactics, if they came from C:SM

THEN
On thunderhammers
carried by FRIENDLY MODELS (where does it say "With combat tactics"?) from C:SM
Again:
On Flamers, Heavy Flamers, Meltaguns and Multimeltas
carried by FRIENDLY MODELS (where does it say "with combat tactics"?) from C:SM

 
   
Made in us
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought






New York, NY

The "Instead" really should be "Further" or "Also." I get the OP's logic. It simply does not play out that way based on the FAQs and such.

LotD get Vulkanized.

I have a love /hate relationship with anything green. 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 Lordhat wrote:
 Bausk wrote:
Wasn't it basically the same before the FAQ?
yes. All the FAQ does is specifically limit the benefit to units/models from C:SM.
The codex does that as well.
   
 
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