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 d-usa wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:

He was hardly caught with the weapon in Mexico now though, was he? He was trying to cross the border and said "Hey, I want to bring this with me, is it cool?" If the weapon was illegal the border guards should have said "No, that weapon is illegal, you have to turn around and go home."

As far as I'm aware Mexican customs offices are within Mexican territory.

So there should be no difference showing up at the border and asking "I can bring this into your fine country, right?" and being caught lugging it around without permission? Is that a RaW thing or do you really see no distinction?

Pretty much. The place to ask that would have been a consulate.

Should Mexicans who want to move here to live off the grid and bring their weapons with them just show up and see if that's cool, or should they get the needed paperwork handled at a US consulate on Mexico?

They already do that, and they don't bother with normal border crossings.

chaos0xomega wrote:
...given that gun ownership is a right in Mexicos Constitution...

Not in the same sense as it is in the US. The Mexican Federal Government can basically restrict ownership at will.

Really?

I am sorry, if you are willing to believe that no Mexican national ever showed up at our border and was caught with something and gave the "I thought it was okay/I had the correct paperwork/that guy said it was okay to bring my weapon/prescription/animal here" speech, and was arrested instead of being told to get his butt back to Mexico then I am not even going to bothers to google anything to engage that level of willful denial.

 d-usa wrote:
Really?

I am sorry, if you are willing to believe that no Mexican national ever showed up at our border and was caught with something and gave the "I thought it was okay/I had the correct paperwork/that guy said it was okay to bring my weapon/prescription/animal here" speech, and was arrested instead of being told to get his butt back to Mexico then I am not even going to bothers to google anything to engage that level of willful denial.

Oh, no sorry, I just thought that since you made statements like

 d-usa wrote:

Again, we arrest plenty of people on our side of the border who can give you the same story.

You were actually speaking from specific knowledge. Instead of, you know, making up things and then phrasing them as declarative statements. I googled "Mexicans arrested for bringing a gun they thought was legal to a US border station." Strangely enough it didn't come up with anything. But feel free to disprove me instead of once again stating something you think must be true and then laying the burden of disproving it on me.

No, you are right. No Mexicans get arrested at our side of the border and they never tell the border guards that they didn't realize that they did anything wrong.

 d-usa wrote:
No, you are right. No Mexicans get arrested at our side of the border and they never tell the border guards that they didn't realize that they did anything wrong.

Getting caught with a full auto AK and a couple kilos of cocaine tends to encourage one to be honest.

dogma wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
...given that gun ownership is a right in Mexicos Constitution...

Not in the same sense as it is in the US. The Mexican Federal Government can basically restrict ownership at will.

In theory their right is stronger, having been written into the constitution instead of amended into it. In practice private firearms ownership in Mexico is rare and extremely limited. Then again they practice near Romano-Sallic law there so who really knows wtf is legal.

 d-usa wrote:
No, you are right. No Mexicans get arrested at our side of the border and they never tell the border guards that they didn't realize that they did anything wrong.

Wow, that is a winning argument. Instead of supporting your statement, lets branch off - build a man out of straw, and argue with that. How many of those Mexicans that we supposing - as apparently it is too much trouble to look up specific cases, and simply knowing that something is true is equally valid - pulled up to the border guards and said "Hey, the Mexican authorities said I could bring this, this thing that I am pointing at and declaring to you right now into your country."? What percentage of these Mexicans that we are conjuring whole from our imaginations were arrested on the spot?

It's simply not an argument worth having, so I submit myself to the fantasy that Mexicans pull up to our border all the time with questionable things to ask if its okay and then return to their homeland if it isn't.

 d-usa wrote:
It's simply not an argument worth having, so I submit myself to the fantasy that Mexicans pull up to our border all the time with questionable things to ask if its okay and then return to their homeland if it isn't.

I'm perfectly willing to grant that what the guy did was in all probability illegal.

The difference is, we don't hand said Mexicans over to the mafia and give them free reign to ransom the unknowing Mexican back to his or her parents while keeping him or her in inhumane conditions.

 d-usa wrote:
It's simply not an argument worth having, so I submit myself to the fantasy that Mexicans pull up to our border all the time with questionable things to ask if its okay and then return to their homeland if it isn't.

Good. Your hyperbole wears on me.

 d-usa wrote:
And I never said that I agree with that part of what is happening.

But if you are going to one of the most corrupt places around, why would you even remotely risk yourself to be put into a situation like that? He doesn't deserve the cartel run prison, if he broke the law he should be in a civilized prison. But he was still dumb for putting himself into a situation where he could be arrested to begin with.

Did you see what she was wearing?

And I never said that I agree with that part of what is happening.

But if you are going to one of the most corrupt places around, why would you even remotely risk yourself to be put into a situation like that? He doesn't deserve the cartel run prison, if he broke the law he should be in a civilized prison. But he was still dumb for putting himself into a situation where he could be arrested to begin with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bromsy wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
It's simply not an argument worth having, so I submit myself to the fantasy that Mexicans pull up to our border all the time with questionable things to ask if its okay and then return to their homeland if it isn't.

Good. Your hyperbole wears on me.

Enjoy your hard earned Internet victory

 d-usa wrote:
And I never said that I agree with that part of what is happening.

But if you are going to one of the most corrupt places around, why would you even remotely risk yourself to be put into a situation like that? He doesn't deserve the cartel run prison, if he broke the law he should be in a civilized prison. But he was still dumb for putting himself into a situation where he could be arrested to begin with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bromsy wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
It's simply not an argument worth having, so I submit myself to the fantasy that Mexicans pull up to our border all the time with questionable things to ask if its okay and then return to their homeland if it isn't.

Good. Your hyperbole wears on me.

Enjoy your hard earned Internet victory

You don't win internet disagreements, you endure them.

And did you try to compare getting arrested at a border post for being in possession of a weapon and calling it a dumb decision with saying a woman was dumb for wearing that and that's why she got raped?

If not please feel free to explain the "did you see what she was wearing" statement.

Edit: it's not even worth it, checking out of this thread...

 d-usa wrote:
And I never said that I agree with that part of what is happening.

But if you are going to one of the most corrupt places around, why would you even remotely risk yourself to be put into a situation like that? He doesn't deserve the cartel run prison, if he broke the law he should be in a civilized prison. But he was still dumb for putting himself into a situation where he could be arrested to begin with.

That "part of what is happening" is what the people I find comprehensible are a tad upset about. It's why many countries won't extradite to us, regardless of the law broken, due to our use of the death penalty in some cases.

I once spent a none-too-pleasant four hours in a police station in Moscow because I'd left the hotel without my passport, and thus couldn't produce my visa when requested by some fine upstanding members of the militsya who heard me speaking English. A 'fine' settled the issue, ultimately, but had it not, I certainly would have hoped somebody back home would have made some noise rather than gone, "While I don't agree with the reenactment of Midnight Express they're performing on the guy, I am a sophisticated and worldly individual who acknowledges that he was asking for it."

It's simply not an argument worth having, so I submit myself to the fantasy that Mexicans pull up to our border all the time with questionable things to ask if its okay and then return to their homeland if it isn't.

Now I don't know about Mexico, but Canadians do that all the time.

 Ratbarf wrote:

It's simply not an argument worth having, so I submit myself to the fantasy that Mexicans pull up to our border all the time with questionable things to ask if its okay and then return to their homeland if it isn't.

Now I don't know about Mexico, but Canadians do that all the time.

Yeah, but that's because were friendly.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So... turns out Americans have to obey the laws of other countries when they're in there.

Even if they're ex-military?
Even if they're nice guys who like to surf?
Even if what they had is legal in the US?

Yes, that is in fact true.

Just like former Mexican soldiers can't carry any weapon they want into the US, former US soldiers can't carry any weapon they want into Mexico.

As for whether the sentence is appropriate or what the #$%^ he's chained to a bed, that's a different issue relating to how Mexico treats prisoners but yeah, they were perfectly right to arrest him.

Mexican troops have crossed the border into the US. Yet strangely we didn't put them in jail or put them under the ground. Incursions happen on the border here with some frequency. Mexican cartels have army units on the payroll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah man, invade and annex I say, just like we should have at the end of the Mexican-American War!

Daer god why? Mexico is a hell hole. Thats why there are 20,000,000 Mexicans in the US now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dogma wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
That's the thing, this guy was APPROVED by MEXICAN authority.

Till he got to the border.

No he wasn't. Per the story he filled out registration paperwork given to him by a US customs agent. He was then detained when he presented the paperwork to Mexican authorities at the border.

The only official that may have examined the paperwork prior to reaching the Mexican border was the US customs agent.

Moral of the story-don't go to Mexico.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Pull him out and flatten the entire useless country.

Thats harsh! sounds like a plan.

 Seaward wrote:
The difference is, we don't hand said Mexicans over to the mafia and give them free reign to ransom the unknowing Mexican back to his or her parents while keeping him or her in inhumane conditions.

No. but when you do, the mexican embassy calls and gets the guy moved away from the block with the Mafia.
Much like how the parents contacted the US embassy, and the embassy got Hammar moved from the general cellblock into solitary confinement.

As such, please stop using the present tense in regards to him being kept with the cartel members. It stopped happening. It even says so in the article, even if the article makes a point of passing that detail as quickly as possible.

A bit of afollow up on the story. Anyone interested can go to the links and sign the petitions and get involved in getting him outta there.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/17/supporters-marine-jon-hammar-wage-social-media-campaign-to-win-his-freedom/?intcmp=obinsite

As an (additional) followup, he's being freed.

MIAMI (CBSMiami) – Jon Hammar, the 27-year-old former Marine from Palmetto Bay, is now back in the United States after spending almost five months imprisoned in Mexico.

Hammar was released Friday night from the Matamoros jail and driven over the U.S.-Mexico border into Brownsville, Texas.

The release was met with relief from the Hammar family.

 Ouze wrote:
As an (additional) followup, he's being freed.

MIAMI (CBSMiami) – Jon Hammar, the 27-year-old former Marine from Palmetto Bay, is now back in the United States after spending almost five months imprisoned in Mexico.

Hammar was released Friday night from the Matamoros jail and driven over the U.S.-Mexico border into Brownsville, Texas.

The release was met with relief from the Hammar family.

Awesome news.

Great news indeed.

Home for Christmas!

Good to hear.

Nice to have a bit of good news!