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I'm not exactly clear on where the techpriests draw the line. I know that they're okay with variations, since every system seems to have its own gun patterns (IE: Calixis-Pattern bolters are different from Obscura-Pattern bolters)

I know they're okay with innovation, because Explorator Research Outposts are one of the basic settlement types of the Imperium (albiet a less common one.) Plus you do occasionally hear about a Magos who invented something cool.

So where exactly are the lines between Hereteks and Techpriests drawn? Is it entirely a philosophical difference, with Hereteks being those who reject the divinity of the machine? Is it based on rank? (So an Archmagos could design a new plasma rifle, but for a lowly enginseer to do so would be hubris?) Is it based on the nature of the changes made?

The Rogue Trader RPG includes a modification for plasma weapons that spreads out the plasma and makes them into super-flamers, and the modification is described as being highly illegal and proscribed by the AdMech, such that players will have to seek out a heretek to modify their weapons if they want plasma flamers. So apparently sawn-off rifles are heresy, but I can't see any overarching methodology to what is and isn't legal.

- Thou shalt not consort with xenos technology, unless thou art a member of the Ordos Xenos

- Thou shalt not use daemonic equipment

-Thou shalt not deviate from the holy plans laid out by the STC

...

Well, its something like that anyway. Its a bit more complicated than that (and not quite as possibly erroneous), but you get the idea.

Touching any tech, not being a member of the admech, not doing as you are told, not believing the religion, trying to "Improve or innovate" tech outside of what they tell you is how it should be.

In other words not being an Admech and not doing what you are told without questioning it.

As with the Inquisition, there are almost certainly radical and puritan factions within the Adeptus Mechanicus. Being a heretek may mean nothing more than that your research has fallen out of favor with Mars.

That's what makes 40K fun. Everybody can find an excuse to pick a quarrel with everybody else.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
- Thou shalt not consort with xenos technology, unless thou art a member of the Ordos Xenos... Or a Grey Knight because you're special

- Thou shalt not use daemonic equipment... Or a Grey Knight because you're special

-Thou shalt not deviate from the holy plans laid out by the STC... Or a Grey Knight because you're special.

Fixed.

With regards to innovation.
You mention explorator research otposts. That to me implies searching for technology/STCs hence the Explorator. Innovation is almost unheard of.

As for what is tech heresy. Think of the machine as a living being. Sawing off a shotgun is tantamount to torture, defiling the blessed plasma cannister and the barrel mutilated to spray plasma against its holy design.

Tekheresy I see as violating something beyond their designed purpose.

Anything done that violates the doctrine of the Ruling Priesthood of Mars, basically.

"Innovation" within the Adeptus Mechanicus isn't allowed at least officially within the doctrine. That would imply that one knew better than the ancients that created the STC, and is thus hubris.

However "rediscovery" of the past is allowed, and the STC is held as the Holy Grail, containing all knowledge worth knowing. Therefore any true invention or innovation officially has to be couched in terms that make it seem like it is a rediscovery of past information or an allowed for variant within the STC, even when really to outside observers it would be a new advance.

Since humanity is fallen far from its technological heights, a lot of what the Adeptus Mechanicus in research could be justified as striving to regain what was lost.

As for the exact specifics of what counts and what doesn't count as STC approved, that is where politics and individual schools of thought start getting involved. The boundaries can at times be quite arbitrary. For example, the orthodox Adeptus Mechanicus frowns on the melding of the warp and technology (which is what the Dark Mechanicus delved into). However Gellar fields and warp engines are such a melding, albeit to a very limited degree. Even void shields are as they are described as throwing off the energy of attacks into the warp. These technologies are allowed, but going further is not.

Similar arbitrariness and politics are involved with xeno technology. It is illegal to dabble in it or admire it...except when permitted to do so by superiors, ostensibly sometimes for the purposes of destroying the xenos or turning their technology against them. In such case, investigation of xenos bodies and technology is permitted and encouraged...until one goes over the line, which may not be defined until one has gone over it or when one's superiors withdraw support or are overthrown themselves.

People, don't mix up your "speculations" with actual fluff, make sure to make them distinct

PresidentOfAsia wrote:
People, don't mix up your "speculations" with actual fluff, make sure to make them distinct

But doesn't fluff leave a lot of room for speculations? Makes it more interesting to see what people come up with.

There's so much variation with a lot of the fluff in 40k so what makes a heretek could mean a number of things

Given the wide variety of responses, it seems like the biggest factor in determining whether someone is a Heretek is whether they can convince their associates and masters that what they're doing is acceptable. Magoses operate essentially without supervision and generally only have to fear their peers, (similar to how the Inquisition works, with individual Inquisitors having power that's unlimited until another Inquisitor decides they've gone too far) As such, most Hereteks are actually able to finish their work and produce whatever unholy thing they were trying to create, and are only discovered when they present their findings to the broader community. (That they present their work at all suggests that many changes and modifications are presented and accepted.)


It was also interesting to discover that according to Lathe Worlds (The Dark Heresy book all about how to roleplay a Techpriest character in the canon RPG) there's a level of sub-Heretek called Malatek. Malateks are shunned by their peers without actually being punished- Often they're allowed to retain their title and holdings, or even remain on their forge world and continue their work, but more often they're sent out to go and be weird somewhere far from civilization until they come to their senses.

This might help

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Heretek#.UMS6X3fXsrg

What leads to being a 'heretek' is probably as variable and arbitrary as what can lead to people being declared 'heretic' that you cannot really generalize. It could vary chronologically (today's heresy is tomorrow's doctrine.), with region (each world/sector/subsector likely has its own little character and makeup, and its not as if Forge worlds and even techpriests aren't competitive and squabbling with each other.) It's quite conceivable and fitting (for example) for the term 'heretek' (or heretic) to be used purely for political or ideological reasons (EG to get rid fo someone you don't like, is in your way, or whatever.) since politics and corruption is an endemic part of the Imperium of Man.

Yes, but there's some things that are always heretical like AI and alien technology.

"traitor"

one side 2 the 40k mellenium

the empire

if your not on it your a herotic

basicly falls under alot of catagories because a genestealer could have stolen somones body or a demon could be inside a little boy infesting a planet.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes, but there's some things that are always heretical like AI and alien technology.

Don't the Deathwatch use some alien tech?

 blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes, but there's some things that are always heretical like AI and alien technology.

Don't the Deathwatch use some alien tech?

Yes, but they're not Techpriests. The Inquisition breaks the rules all the time. The Mechanicum can declare the Ordo Xenos Hereteks but there's no point unless they want to start a war.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes, but there's some things that are always heretical like AI and alien technology.

Don't the Deathwatch use some alien tech?

Yes, but they're not Techpriests. The Inquisition breaks the rules all the time. The Mechanicum can declare the Ordo Xenos Hereteks but there's no point unless they want to start a war.

So any techpriests working for the ordo aren't considered hereteks, unless of course they go rogue

 blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes, but there's some things that are always heretical like AI and alien technology.

Don't the Deathwatch use some alien tech?

Yes, but they're not Techpriests. The Inquisition breaks the rules all the time. The Mechanicum can declare the Ordo Xenos Hereteks but there's no point unless they want to start a war.

So any techpriests working for the ordo aren't considered hereteks, unless of course they go rogue

Sort of. I'm sure most Mechanicum folk still think they're hereteks but would never say it to their face.