Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

well, after reading this http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/492282.page thread i came up with a question: aare there any really useless models in our beloved Infinity? By useless i mean models so overcosted/underpowered that it is always a bad choice to take them. For example i think that sapper moblot is always a no-go becase:
1)he's overpriced. Seriously, 36 pts 1.5 swc is high enough for 1W 3ARM HI, but "sapper" skill's cost makes it even harder to justify
2)moblots are usually used in two roles: solo infiltrator and linked team. Sapper doesn't fit neither of them, because he cannot infiltrate or use his sapper skill being part of the link
3)large base. It can be a pain to move them in right place because of his enormous size.
so my expirience so far tells me that moblot saper is always a no-go.

The purpose of this thread is not to find flaws in Corvus Belli game design, but to give each other some fresh points of view or ideas of how to use your models at full strenght. Any comments are welcome.

First unless you getting shot by AP ammo, he is ARM6, second he is a small base model with a big display base. His meant for sitting in the middle of the feild cover important objectives and line of advancement. Playing French he is not as useful, but in the vanilla there great for holding the line why your doggy eat face. Of couse as a Nomad player I love to see linked teams of HI units, so forget what I just said .

The only unit I would call underpowered for it point is Imperial Agent and the new book gave thena boost, so we will have to wait and see if they still are.

There is several models out there that are slightly overcosted or not as useful as others, but nothing "useless" by any stretch of the imagination. The main time you'll see overcosted is when a role for a model is better off by another model but if the situation is slightly different then the other model shines.

For your Moblot vs Zouve debate, plop down 3 HMG Moblot sappers with LoF down key areas with a Lt safely in 8". WHile situational, yes, they can make a serious mess of an area. They also have 3 more PH, 1 more armor, and shock immunity. which accounts for a lot of their point cost. One of the hardest things about a linked team is finding cover for everyone, these guys make their own.

Two examples of overcosted things from the Nomad side is Securitate and Meteor Zonds. Meteor Zones are .5 SWC overcosted IMO and Securitate's point cost is hugely inflated from SS2 which for their role isn't terribly unnecessary.

Noir wrote:
His meant for sitting in the middle of the feild cover important objectives and line of advancement.

yeah if you can get them there in one piece. Zouave is better at this because of his mechanized deployment and lower cost.

he only unit I would call underpowered for it point is Imperial Agent

agreed, agents are hugely overpriced, mostly because of their mono-ccws. But one of our players used crane rank agent as achilles counter and had some success

 mzob wrote:

Noir wrote:
His meant for sitting in the middle of the feild cover important objectives and line of advancement.

yeah if you can get them there in one piece. Zouave is better at this because of his mechanized deployment and lower cost.

he only unit I would call underpowered for it point is Imperial Agent

agreed, agents are hugely overpriced, mostly because of their mono-ccws. But one of our players used crane rank agent as achilles counter and had some success

You can reactive Sapper in a new spot if you need to move, it is no harder then recamo. Whle the part I bolded show that, it is how you use a unit that makes them weak or not.

With Infinity its a lot harder to have a useless model, because you have multiple troop profiles and at least one of them should always be useful for its points cost.

 mzob wrote:
2)moblots are usually used in two roles: solo infiltrator and linked team. Sapper doesn't fit neither of them, because he cannot infiltrate or use his sapper skill being part of the link

I disagree with Sappers being no use in a Link, it's fantastic on the defensive and not much more expensive on the offensive. The list below, for example, the HMG Sappers get +1 Burst and Sixth Sense 2 which stops their biggest weakness against camo, any cheap template warbands need to get past the Chasseurs and you've got the ever-reliable Margot and Duroc to chase the enemy forwards into the big guns.


FORCE DE RR MEROVINGIENNE
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 9/Irrs: 0):

2x MOBLOT (Sapper) HMG / Pistol, CCW (41 | 2)
MOBLOT Lieutenant Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW (28)
MOBLOT Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW (28)
MARGOT AP Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife (75 | 2)
DUROC 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CCW
3x CHASSEUR Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (19)
MÉTRO Rifle / Pistol, Knife (8)

GROUP 2 (Regs: 2/Irrs: 0):

2x MÉTRO (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (11)

300 Points | SWC: 6

ARMY CODE: eNozNlY1VTM0UDOsgVPmYBLENgeTZhikIZQ0VjOCkAAh5A+E
Army Infinity v.3.0. - http://www.devilteam.com

eh, doesn't using a long skill break a link?

No it doesn't, it's just that to dig in both of the Sappers after moving everyone you'd have to spend two Orders.

Otherwise Speculative Shot, Intuitive Attack, Suppression Fire, Cautious Move etc. wouldn't be possible with a Link.

hmm, interesting. I should re-read rules more carefully then. And BTW your list isn't optimal. I'd drop all the metros and add an 112 and a chasseur. Combat group of two models isn't going to do much and 1 empty metro is a leitenant-pretender at his best.

I tried that, it doesn't work. :(

The printout above is showing the wrong number of models in the main Combat Group as it's not listing Duroc in the Irregular column.

Use the http://infinitypool.com/ Luke!

How does that help with not being able to fit 11 models into a ten-model limit for the Combat Group?

It's http://infinitycreator.com by the way...

oh, my bad. Didn't read your post correctly. : )
well, then make your three chasseurs FO and add 112 instead of metro. Or a loup-garo. Or briscard. But don't use 2-men combat groups, this is just plain stupid in most cases.

FOs and a 112 gives you ten models with nine points left over.

The vast majority of the time I agree that a second small group is a bad thing but when it's a couple of 'disposable' inferior infiltration/limited camo models it's a bit different, they're there to help clump people up for Duroc's arrival.

The much preferred version would be getting +1 AVA in Paradiso and then running a full Link of Moblots but of course you then need to consider Engineers, Muls etc.

I think a lot comes down to the Mission. This is not meant to be a game of just "kill each other". It sometimes the case but usually it's "kill the Lt." or "kill the specialist".

Certain troops are better for certain missions.

Just as you don't bring a Knife to a Gun fight, you don't bring a Hacker to fight an Antipode swarm.

I know it's not something you usually don't know before hand but terrain can be a factor too. How many guys take Multiterrain if they could take Combat Jump? Well if you know you are in swamp or on the side of a mountain you might want it.

So that Moblot sapper might not be good choice in some missions/terrain but I'm sure if you had a board with little to no terrain you'd wish you had him!

The ambusher in mission 201 would be an obvious choice, the opponent has to try and reach your table edge.