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I have read that book and i thought it was just Helsreach that sufferd that badly everywhere else suffered to but Helsreach got hit worse than anywhere else. If I remember correctly it was seen as a doomed mission from the start by the Black Templer themselves. Also were there not like a dozen if not more cities like Helsreach. I could be wrong it has been a while since I read the book.

Also on topic the Eastern Fringe would be cool place to some story movement.

 Gunhead1 wrote:
I have read that book and i thought it was just Helsreach that sufferd that badly everywhere else suffered to but Helsreach got hit worse than anywhere else. If I remember correctly it was seen as a doomed mission from the start by the Black Templer themselves. Also were there not like a dozen if not more cities like Helsreach. I could be wrong it has been a while since I read the book.

Also on topic the Eastern Fringe would be cool place to some story movement.

No, Helsreach was one of the ones that got off lightly compared to the others. I think there were at least three other hives that were completely destroyed, and I can only assume the others took as much of a pounding as Helsreach did. Helsreach still had pockets of survivors at the end (Sarren, for example, was still holding out somewhere and survived the battle) and was classified as a victory.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:

The Imperium finally driving the Orks off Armageddon

No, I'd rather see the Imperium use exterminatus. The ability of the planet to contribute to the Imperium is effectively nil, at the end of the third war. I'd prefer to see the Imperium cut their losses.

Except that you and I both know that won't happen, and the Imperium knows it as well. Armageddon is one of the most vital manufacturing centers in the Segmentum Solar next to Mars. They'd sooner give up the entire Eastern Fringe than let the planet fall. The war is ongoing, but that hasn't stopped Imperial shipping from trucking out regiments and armor to other sectors. If Cadia can still deploy Shock Troopers throughout the galaxy while under siege by the massed forces of Chaos, then Armageddon can do the same.

Not any more it's not. The workers are dead, the manufactorums destroyed, the infrastructure shattered. I mean, I'm just going by the outcome of Helsreach which I finished the other day, but Armageddon is nothing but a token battlefield any more. There's nothing left to save.

Even with nothing left to save, the IoM isn't going to give up the fight and an exterminatus would just be the most lame ending to the war you can have.

nomotog wrote:
Even with nothing left to save, the IoM isn't going to give up the fight and an exterminatus would just be the most lame ending to the war you can have.

I know. I guess it's just my strategy gaming side coming through. If I were in charge of the Imperium of Man, I'd consider it a job well done. Resistance was fierce enough to splinter the Orks, preventing them from acting as a single co-ordinated force. The planet is now not worth the expenditure that would be required to re-take it, so instead of wasting resources taking it back, or leaving it in Ork hands, just blow it the hell up. Leave them with nothing.

That's what I'd do, and what I'd like to see them do. I doubt they'll do anything though.

 Kaldor wrote:
.

Okay thank you.


Oh and for the book. I understood it as the whole planet is mixed, some hives were down right destroyed, someone were completely fethed uped (Helsreach) but I believe there are a few that survived relatively in good shape.

I understood it as Helsreach was simply one of the worst battles.

@Kaldor - As I also own and have read Helsreach, I would humbly beg to differ about the best strategic option being the Exterminatus of Armageddon. Simply, from my stratgegic point of view, holding the ground, even if it is not viable currently as a manufacturing world, is better than destroying whatever potential it would have post-regeneration.

Edit: Spoiler refers to 'The Purging of Kadillus' by Gav Thorpe



However, that's just my opinion, and I respect your own opinion.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
@Kaldor - As I also own and have read Helsreach, I would humbly beg to differ about the best strategic option being the Exterminatus of Armageddon. Simply, from my stratgegic point of view, holding the ground, even if it is not viable currently as a manufacturing world, is better than destroying whatever potential it would have post-regeneration.

I think the bit that really got me was where they talk about how Armageddon would have to have it's tithe grade reduced, or even waived entirely. And that as a result, it would receive next to no aid from the Imperium in order to rebuild, or to protect it. The way the characters were talking, once a planet is unable to contribute the Imperium will no longer take an interest in it.

Still, it's all good fun to speculate.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
@Kaldor - As I also own and have read Helsreach, I would humbly beg to differ about the best strategic option being the Exterminatus of Armageddon. Simply, from my stratgegic point of view, holding the ground, even if it is not viable currently as a manufacturing world, is better than destroying whatever potential it would have post-regeneration.

I think the bit that really got me was where they talk about how Armageddon would have to have it's tithe grade reduced, or even waived entirely. And that as a result, it would receive next to no aid from the Imperium in order to rebuild, or to protect it. The way the characters were talking, once a planet is unable to contribute the Imperium will no longer take an interest in it.

Still, it's all good fun to speculate.

Indeed. Still, I think when the Imperium wants something, they will stick to one plan of attack for as long as possible. I mean, if Krieg underwent a 500 year civil war that ravaged the entire planet and they still manage to pump out a bajillion clone regiments every month, Armageddon will still be used to the bitter end.

Besides, it isn't like the planet hasn't been completely ravaged and then rebuilt (Angron influenced ethnic purge)

I can't help but feel renaming that fething planet might help its odds. It's like the universe sees a place called "Armageddon" and decides it must act to make the name accurate.

More on-topic, the Imperium, when it decides to, can rebuild just about anything. A victory on Armageddon, which seems probable given the "current" state of affairs would be a major propaganda tool, it would become a symbol, and the Imperium doesn't cheap out on symbols.

I mean, Cadia has withstood a fair number of Black Crusades, it's likely been wrecked, or near-wrecked half a dozen times or more, yet every time the IoM rebuilds. Armageddon would be no different, and the hard-won experience of the Steel Legions would likely make them a prime Imperial Guard force; provided their experience is codified and formalized into the nature of the steel legion itself, the IoM would likely make extensive use of them against Orks and in hostile climates, much like how Krieg forces are used heavily in siege environments.

There's still plenty of value on Armageddon for the IoM, heck, there's a whole class of battlecruiser named after it; it's become too important as a symbol, nevermind any strategic value, for the IoM to just say "screw you guys, cyclonic torpedos."

 Kaldor wrote:

Still, it's all good fun to speculate.

Exactly, that's kinda what makes 40K so compelling, and it's all based on personal preference, as demonstrated by our opposing opinions. Referring back to the OP then, the major downside of drastically advancing the over-arching 40K plot, would be that it would limit the scope of this 'speculation'. However, I guess that GW would not be as simple as to completely round-up the whole plot, as it would push fans too far away, lowering sales But I do hope for advancement of minor story-lines.

One thing I think they run risk of doing is complete stagnation.

One can only care about Armageddon and the 13th Black Crusade for so long. Even advancing only a few years means they could conclude the big battles of "today," and open up lots of new avenues for the future.

Speculation over the same subjects which have been speculated over for 10+ years gets tiresome.

It is a cliff hanger, but some obscurities could be wiped up.
but mainly the point here in all playable timelines, is that it could go any way. adding more would ruin that

A spinoff game of what happened pre emperor would be pretty cool...

It would be nice to see a bit of advancement of the story, as long as it doesnt ruin the fluff of the established armies and races.

 Squat Kid wrote:
A spinoff game of what happened pre emperor would be pretty cool...

That would be really cool! Post apoc battles with techno barbarian warlords and crazy mutants and all that. I imagine it to be like mixing WHFB with Mad Max and sprinkling some Toxic Avenger over the top. It would be all fun and games until the Thunder Warriors show up and hut everyone down.

i want something to happen that brings back the primarchs that are waiting, sleeping, healing or otherwise engaged.
id like more Development on Cypher (hoping hes a good guy)
More Legion of the damned maybe they could act as magnet for any good but corrupted Spacemarines 13th Company, Fallen Darkangels, perhaps some rogue DeathCompany or something i cant remember.

an event id support would be the tau empire absorbing another alien empire even help us get more units!

I wouldn't go that far, but I do agree that there should definitely be more events and area's of interest that could benefit from a decade, or even a single century to remove the clout of stagnation. Furthermore, because of the warp it's completely possible for an area to have an advancement of a mere year, do exactly the same thing as a century in another.

I'm all for events moving ahead. Stuff in the past happened in the past, and we know how things ended up. Sort of like how halo reach bored me to tears, I already knew the ending. I want something that will have me guessing, and not just doomsday scenarios hinted at in every armies fluff.

 kwah wrote:
an event id support would be the tau empire absorbing another alien empire even help us get more units!

The Tau Empire errupting into limited Civil War with the Farsight enclaves would be a good Imperial Armour type book / campaign - with a variety of other factions able to get involved in the ongoing (and liekly expanding) conflict

Dark Eldar preying on both sides and having fun
Tryanids splnter fleets moving in
Opportunist Imperial moves, Inquisitorial destablisation teams,
Mercenary operations with the Kroot (on both sides?) and human /Eldar renegades/pirates
Previously mentioned but unseen Tau client races
Orks drawn to the fighting
Chaos taking notice
Even Necrons waking up.

lots of cool stuf for everyone - Special Characters, variant army lists, fortifications

 Mr Morden wrote:

 kwah wrote:
an event id support would be the tau empire absorbing another alien empire even help us get more units!

The Tau Empire errupting into limited Civil War with the Farsight enclaves would be a good Imperial Armour type book / campaign - with a variety of other factions able to get involved in the ongoing (and liekly expanding) conflict

Dark Eldar preying on both sides and having fun
Tryanids splnter fleets moving in
Opportunist Imperial moves, Inquisitorial destablisation teams,
Mercenary operations with the Kroot (on both sides?) and human /Eldar renegades/pirates
Previously mentioned but unseen Tau client races
Orks drawn to the fighting
Chaos taking notice
Even Necrons waking up.

lots of cool stuf for everyone - Special Characters, variant army lists, fortifications

The Tau Empire's strenght is it's unity. The Imperium is, thanks to it's huge size, a far better place for civil wars without utterly ruining the faction.

Regarding the idea of expanding the timeline, i don't like it. Bringing back the primarchs is a horrible idea because every last of them is a terrible and utterly flat Sue in a universe of Sues.
It is much better and ultiamtely easier to explore the Imperium's long and interesting history than to try and find some kind of solution for the "current", ongoing conflicts.

Fourth war for armageddon?

but with... wait for it...
NECRONS.

who've been found living 'Door-mant' beneath the crust of armageddon.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 kwah wrote:
an event id support would be the tau empire absorbing another alien empire even help us get more units!

The Tau Empire errupting into limited Civil War with the Farsight enclaves would be a good Imperial Armour type book / campaign - with a variety of other factions able to get involved in the ongoing (and liekly expanding) conflict

Dark Eldar preying on both sides and having fun
Tryanids splnter fleets moving in
Opportunist Imperial moves, Inquisitorial destablisation teams,
Mercenary operations with the Kroot (on both sides?) and human /Eldar renegades/pirates
Previously mentioned but unseen Tau client races
Orks drawn to the fighting
Chaos taking notice
Even Necrons waking up.

lots of cool stuf for everyone - Special Characters, variant army lists, fortifications

Ive been hoping for this for a while. It would make a great story/setting