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 Asherian Command wrote:
It is also possible he in his own right got stronger and more familiar with his skills because more people started to believe in him.

It is possible. The warp is a weird place and their belief may have made him using his powers easier, for example. But that's really no different from Eldrad using a psychically active staff to enhance his power, a Weirdboy using a big mob of Boyz, or a Zoanthrope making use of the power of the Hive warp presence to enhance its own psychic power.

I've always wondered how powerful a warp/weirdboy could get say like 1million orks clustered as close as possible. How strong could he get before his head just blew up?

BaconUprising wrote:
I've always wondered how powerful a warp/weirdboy could get say like 1million orks clustered as close as possible. How strong could he get before his head just blew up?

He would probably explode. All those voices.

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
All untrue, the Strongest Psyker is Mephiston. He has a Str of 6, any other Psykers have a Str of 6?

Any Wraithseer would, by your logic, be the strongest psyker at STR 10.

What codex are they in?

They are HQ choices for Codex: Eldar. You can find their listing on the FW website I believe and I am certain you'll find their info if you look in IA11.

@Roadkill

I'm very confused with your standards, hope you can help me clarify. You say that Eldrad retreating from Fulgrim was a rational, intelligent tactical decision on his part. I completely agree. But then you say that the Emperor staying on Earth and building up his strength for the Crusade was somehow a sign of his lack of power. Why isn't that also a rational, intelligent strategic decision on the Emperor's part? The Emperor had a very specific plan that was going to take an extremely long time to implement. He had the most intimate knowledge of the Warp of any human. He knew that the Forces of Chaos derive their power from the material realm. He was creating an Imperial Webway project specifically so humanity could travel through the stars without having to use the Warp. He didn't want to leave Earth to go fight them, he set up a very long-term and detailed plan to annihilate them for good by eliminating belief in them. And he almost got away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling Traitor Legions!

tl;dr the Emperor chilling on Earth to build up his strength should be a credit to his foresight, not a slight on his Psyker abilities.

The only way I can see people disputing the Emperor as the most powerful psyker is if you choose to call him a god and thus disqualified from consideration. He has been in uninterrupted psychic combat with all the Chaos Gods for 10,000 years with only his MIND. Astropaths are created from the Soul-Binding, a ritual that exposes them to a tiny portion of the Emperor's power, and those that survive have their soul cleansed of any warp taint and their psychic powers greatly enhanced.

 Melissia wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Well fluff has always had the big E as the most powerful HUMAN psyker to have ever lived. But that does not in any way make him the most powerful psyker. While the Emperor keeps the beacon alive, in his prime he was stuck on earth because of Warp Storms

... and later on, he was said to calm or cause warp stroms through his psychic power. So apparently he got stronger.

From WH40K wiki:

The Emperor is the "New Man", the first and greatest of the new race of human psykers. He is also the collective reincarnation of the extinct shamans, sorcerers and wise-men who had guided primitive humanity during prehistoric times. As the Emperor grew older his powers began to manifest themselves and become more potent and he gradually remembered his thousands of past lives, adding all of their knowledge and experience to his own.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:I never said they couldn't grow in power Melissia. quote me anywhere saying that they couldn't. I've never said they don't grow in power. What I did say is the Emperor isn't the most powerful psyker.

You're right, you didn't say that. You did, however, use this as an excuse for Eldrad's actions but not for the Emperor.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:@Void Dragon...Considering the chaos gods are supposedly afraid of the emperor because he would destroy them as another poster so equolenty put it, yeah, what a pussy!...If he could destroy the 4 chaos powers then a warp storm should have been a breeze for someone so powerful right?

It's BS. He's never been so powerful that he could destroy the chaos gods.

Nobody said he would destroy them with Psychic powers. As I said above, his plan was to destroy them by eliminating their source of power in the material word, ie chaos worship, and the Chaos gods knew that and were so scared they tried to ruin his plan by scattering the Primarchs and then the Horus Hersey itself. Per 40k wiki, "The Chaos Gods themselves recognised the Emperor as their greatest enemy among all the intelligent beings of the galaxy."

Roadkill Zombie wrote:And knowing that the Eldar were the most powerful psykers for millenia is not a flawed premise, It is an established fact in the Eldar and Dark Eldar codexes. They ruled the galaxy for millenia with virtually no one being a threat to them. They developed their technology to be based on psychic abilities. They used that tech to rule the galaxy. Their Psychic powers were formidable, you are right, and because of that they used them to develop their tech. And their tech is what helped them to rule the galaxy. That is not a flawed premise at all.

It's absolutely a flawed premise because the question is "Who is the most powerful Psyker?" not "Which race as a whole has the most intimate knowledge of Psychic abilities?". A civilization that adapted psychic abilities into their technology does not make them the most powerful psykers de facto, either. You're arguing a different question. By your own list in answer to the most powerful individual, you listed two entire civilizations (which were both annihilated by Forces of Chaos) ahead of the Emperor (who is considered by the Chaos gods themselves to be their biggest threat), but no individuals. So I guess your answer is the Emperor after all?

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
All untrue, the Strongest Psyker is Mephiston. He has a Str of 6, any other Psykers have a Str of 6?

Any Wraithseer would, by your logic, be the strongest psyker at STR 10.

What codex are they in?

They are HQ choices for Codex: Eldar. You can find their listing on the FW website I believe and I am certain you'll find their info if you look in IA11.

So they are not actually in a codex. but in the IA book. Got it.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
@ Melissia, you're welcome. Since GW does tell everyone that all of the fluff is and is not canon at the same time, I can do that. Because what you say is canon and is not canon.

I choose to believe the older canon stuff, not this new garbage they come up with. And based off of that he is not, nor has he ever been THE most powerful psyker. What he has been is THE most powerful HUMAN psyker. The Old Ones were the most powerful psykers. Followed by the Eldar, then by the Emperor.

That is the canon I choose to believe and it in no way contradicts the established fluff because all of the fluff is canon and not canon at the same time.

It's pretty easy to claim the Emperor is not the most powerful psyker in the galaxy when you ignore every single reason he is.

Frankly, applying GW's attitude on canon to a forum discussion is idiotic.

There can't actually be a discussion if you just cherry-pick what you like and ignore what you dislike. The most rational course of action is to go for the general average.

@Void Dragon...Considering the chaos gods are supposedly afraid of the emperor because he would destroy them as another poster so equolenty put it, yeah, what a pussy!...If he could destroy the 4 chaos powers then a warp storm should have been a breeze for someone so powerful right?

It's BS. He's never been so powerful that he could destroy the chaos gods.

Both the Collected Visions HH artbook and the HH series have stated he, in fact, was powerful enough to devastate the Realms of Chaos... Over time. He could not just decide "I'm gonna destroy Chaos", make a thought, and then do it, no, but he is capable of much more than Eldrad.

Do I think Eldrad could have done it? no, because it was caused by the Eldar and he is an Eldar. But I do believe the Old Ones could have done it.

Eldrad isn't an Old One, and the Old Ones have done... Well, really nothing of psychic note that is explicitly the result of raw psychic power.

And knowing that the Eldar were the most powerful psykers for millenia is not a flawed premise, It is an established fact in the Eldar and Dark Eldar codexes. They ruled the galaxy for millenia with virtually no one being a threat to them. They developed their technology to be based on psychic abilities. They used that tech to rule the galaxy. Their Psychic powers were formidable, you are right, and because of that they used them to develop their tech. And their tech is what helped them to rule the galaxy. That is not a flawed premise at all.

They had no competition. The Orks have powerful psykers, but of a rather different sort than the Eldar, and most Orks can't actively tap into it. Humanity had very very few, besides the Emperor, who was always in the shadows, planning for his Great Crusade.

That they intertwined their tech with their powers does not make their psychic power necessarily greater than someone who does not.

And you are not being truthful about Eldrad vs Fulgrim at all. Eldrad was a young farseer then. And Fulgriim was a primarch backed with the powers of chaos. A very formidable opponent indeed. Eldrad didn't run in fear, he strategically withdrew. You guys always make it sound like he was a coward and ran from the fight. Instead, he knew he did not have the physical might to destroy Fulgrim so he withdrew. That is far from being a coward and running away like a sissy. In real life, some of the greatest generals in history withdrew when they knew they could not defeat a strong opponent. Does that make them a sissy? not in my book.

I do not believe Eldrad was a coward to flee. He would have been fething stupid not to, after seeing Fulgrim punch right through the head of a Wraithlord. And feeling fear is not cowardly in of itself.

Fair point on the notion that he likely grew in power however.

Validate Eldrad being able to do what the Emperor does with the Astronomicon? Because the emperor isn't doing it, the chair is.

lol

No, you're wrong, sorry.

The sacrifice of psykers fuels the Astronomicon, the Emperor's psychic might directs and controls that power. And holding back Chaos? All the Emperor. He did it during the Battle of Terra, holding back the tide of Chaos from spilling into his throne room and overrunning Terra from within, and he does it now on a galaxy-wide scale, as per at least the last two rulebooks.

And my point about Eldrad having access to the black library was in response to the person that said any psyker that has access to the black library is going to be more powerful...yeah, sometimes Eldrad does use knowledge from the black library.

Can you prove that statement? I've never heard of Eldrad using the Black Library, like, at all.

Im sorry but it's not the chair. If it was the chair then why when malacador was on it did he have to use all of his considerable pyschic mind to control it? Ps that cost him his life.

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
All untrue, the Strongest Psyker is Mephiston. He has a Str of 6, any other Psykers have a Str of 6?

Any Wraithseer would, by your logic, be the strongest psyker at STR 10.

What codex are they in?

They are HQ choices for Codex: Eldar. You can find their listing on the FW website I believe and I am certain you'll find their info if you look in IA11.

So they are not actually in a codex. but in the IA book. Got it.

To continue playing your silly game, the book says it's an HQ choice for Codex: Eldar. You keep ignoring stuff that contradicts your statement and jump through a number of hoops to ensure that Mephiston is the "strongest" psyker.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
All untrue, the Strongest Psyker is Mephiston. He has a Str of 6, any other Psykers have a Str of 6?

Any Wraithseer would, by your logic, be the strongest psyker at STR 10.

What codex are they in?

They are HQ choices for Codex: Eldar. You can find their listing on the FW website I believe and I am certain you'll find their info if you look in IA11.

So they are not actually in a codex. but in the IA book. Got it.

To continue playing your silly game, the book says it's an HQ choice for Codex: Eldar. You keep ignoring stuff that contradicts your statement and jump through a number of hoops to ensure that Mephiston is the "strongest" psyker.

Warpspider is technically right, if it was a bench-pressing contest. It all depends on how powerful Mephiston was before be beat the Black Rage/Red Thrist(or both), because after that he had his power amplified.

I would say the swarmlord or obv the CRASSUS AMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT

 kelewan wrote:
I would say the swarmlord or obv the CRASSUS AMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT

NO! Tank memes will not defile the Librarium!!! *Cast Smite, fail Psychic Test* Oh fet...GLARBLEGLARBLEGARBLEOMOMLUM!!!!!

For me its clearly the Emperor of mankind. Why? Well, saying that the Eldar were the most advanced psyker race is true BUT they were blinded by their power. Only a low percentage of Eldars even thought of fleeing, the rest caused Slaaneth.
Big E foresaw his/her/its birth and began with the logically best step. He created the Legiones Astartes and the Primarchs. He also foresaw the fall of the Eldar as a sideefect of Slaaneth's birth ergo one problem less to care about. Good, maybe he underestimated the Eldar but then again what can a few thousand space elves do against biologically enhanced superhumans who come in millions!
Then again I recall that in "The First Heretic" he was able to commune with Malcador over the whole galaxy (correct me if I'm wrong here as I am not sure).
The Emperor was not only a psyker, he was a force of nature, even a force of the warp you could say. I think I have read once that the ONLY thing which prevents him to become a god of the warp is the fact that he is still bond to his body.
But if we look at any "not uber-load" psyker i.e no primarchs, gods or Emprah himself I'd give my vote to Ahriman.

In The First Heretic, the Emperor was physically present, lol.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
In The First Heretic, the Emperor was physically present, lol.

I thought that after the Sigillite failed in disputing with Lograr, he contacted the Emperor to teleport to the respective world? Ah well then I must have mis-interpreted it. Thanks for clearing that up!

The Emperor was in one of the vessels in orbit around Monarchia, not on Terra.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The Emperor was in one of the vessels in orbit around Monarchia, not on Terra.

That would be a hell of big warp jump...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He could probably do it though... Maby... Probably not... If he locked on to Lorgars pyschic presence in the warp?

BaconUprising wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The Emperor was in one of the vessels in orbit around Monarchia, not on Terra.

That would be a hell of big warp jump...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He could probably do it though... Maby... Probably not... If he locked on to Lorgars pyschic presence in the warp?

Magnus essentially did it from Prospero to Terra, but it took a lot of work.

On the table-top, for the points, a Chaos Sorcerer with Mastery Level 3, Sigil of Corruption, Mark of Tzeentch, and a spell familiar is fething meaty as hell.

As much as I like Eldrad I'm finding it strange to see him this high up in people's lists.

I mean other than some nifty foresight what kind of psykic prowess has he to show for?

It's not like he can checkmate godlike alien gestalt consciences, rolfstomp bloodthirsters, eat Craftworlds or breach the webway, wipe out scores of harlies and live to tell about it. I supposed he did beat Failbaddon though.

 Popenfresh wrote:
As much as I like Eldrad I'm finding it strange to see him this high up in people's lists.

I mean other than some nifty foresight what kind of psykic prowess has he to show for?

It's not like he can checkmate godlike alien gestalt consciences, rolfstomp bloodthirsters, eat Craftworlds or breach the webway, wipe out scores of harlies and live to tell about it. I supposed he did beat Failbaddon though.

His speciality is / was divination and he probably was among the most accomplished psykers in that discipline. Very few, perhaps noone, could match him in that regard.

What about the Legion of the Damned? It's so heavily hinted that it is the Big E's will made manifest. Surely that counts for something as well? Never mind Mephiston, the Big E controls a ghost roflstomp immortal SM company that destroys anything it's sent to deal with and endures firepower way beyond what a marine could...

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
All untrue, the Strongest Psyker is Mephiston. He has a Str of 6, any other Psykers have a Str of 6?

Any Wraithseer would, by your logic, be the strongest psyker at STR 10.

What codex are they in?

They are HQ choices for Codex: Eldar. You can find their listing on the FW website I believe and I am certain you'll find their info if you look in IA11.

So they are not actually in a codex. but in the IA book. Got it.

If you want to keep playing this game, Hive Tyrants and the Swarmlord are both S6. So Mephiston is, at best, merely equal with the other top strength psykers.

 -Loki- wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
All untrue, the Strongest Psyker is Mephiston. He has a Str of 6, any other Psykers have a Str of 6?

Any Wraithseer would, by your logic, be the strongest psyker at STR 10.

What codex are they in?

They are HQ choices for Codex: Eldar. You can find their listing on the FW website I believe and I am certain you'll find their info if you look in IA11.

So they are not actually in a codex. but in the IA book. Got it.

If you want to keep playing this game, Hive Tyrants and the Swarmlord are both S6. So Mephiston is, at best, merely equal with the other top strength psykers.

As well as dreadknights.

 KingDeath wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
As much as I like Eldrad I'm finding it strange to see him this high up in people's lists.

I mean other than some nifty foresight what kind of psykic prowess has he to show for?

It's not like he can checkmate godlike alien gestalt consciences, rolfstomp bloodthirsters, eat Craftworlds or breach the webway, wipe out scores of harlies and live to tell about it. I supposed he did beat Failbaddon though.

His speciality is / was divination and he probably was among the most accomplished psykers in that discipline. Very few, perhaps noone, could match him in that regard.

I understand that Eldar don't really think Emperor is a great talent. Emperor's own foresight talents probably are on par with average Farseer?

FFG roleplaying manuals state that Eldar psykers usually aren't a match for human psykers in terms of raw power.

Do Daemons count? Lord of Changes are mentioned as "most powerful sorcerers in the Galaxy."

What does really classify a psyker? A human has to learn to use his abilities while a daemon already have them.

Backfire wrote:
I understand that Eldar don't really think Emperor is a great talent. Emperor's own foresight talents probably are on par with average Farseer?

FFG roleplaying manuals state that Eldar psykers usually aren't a match for human psykers in terms of raw power.

Do Daemons count? Lord of Changes are mentioned as "most powerful sorcerers in the Galaxy.

I personally would not count Daemons, the closest I'd be willing to go is Daemon Princes, but it should be noted that Ahriman's mastery of sorcery is explicitly compared to a Lord of Change's.

Just for the record I didn't mean daemons to be counted sorry for the confusion, otherwise you would just say the chaos gods

Gork and Mork are even stronger.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Gork and Mork are even stronger.

Haha maybe but I'm not sure Gork (or possibly mork) even knows what pyshic powers are