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Horrible tragedy.

Praying for the lives lost and hearing the acts of bravery during this incident.

There's two shooters? (ones dead and another in custody?? seeing conflicting reports)

I'm sorry guys. I am angry but I'll get over it. My sadness though is taking over. All I can think about is my son going back to kindergarten after being sick all week.

How do we treat the actual problem though? Mental health screenings at all levels of school? Increased availability of care?

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
How do we treat the actual problem though? Mental health screenings at all levels of school? Increased availability of care?

It's a start... I know plenty of people that need mental help and they simply can't afford it.

And CDK, I'm sorry dude... I would be worried if I had a kid too..


As a slight non-sequitor: Local radio station posed the question about what we do to fix this issue, and the show is known for it's slightly off the cuff humor had the host say we obviously need to arm the kids so they can defend themselves.

Suspects mother was killed, as was the principal and guidance counselor. 18-20 children killed.

 whembly wrote:


There's two shooters? (ones dead and another in custody?? seeing conflicting reports)

Lots of conflicting reports. I saw one report that his brother was taken in for questioning. Perhaps his brother found out his father was killed and raced to the school where his mom was? Dunno. Again, speculation. I think it will take a few days for everything to shake out.

Latest report says that most of the kids were kindergartners... So sad.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
How do we treat the actual problem though? Mental health screenings at all levels of school? Increased availability of care?

It's a start... I know plenty of people that need mental help and they simply can't afford it.

And CDK, I'm sorry dude... I would be worried if I had a kid too..


As a slight non-sequitor: Local radio station posed the question about what we do to fix this issue, and the show is known for it's slightly off the cuff humor had the host say we obviously need to arm the kids so they can defend themselves.

Well my Israeli friend says that when she was in school all her teachers carried pistols so they could defend their students if terrorists attacked the school (which has happened) so... that? maybe?

Like I said before it's not Entirely the guns, It's the Lack of access to mental health. I literally was just talking to someone at work who was originally from Bulgaria. He said to buy a gun you had to do a mental health test at a police station before you buy one.

 CDK wrote:
Like I said before it's not Entirely the guns, It's the Lack of access to mental health. I literally was just talking to someone at work who was originally from Bulgaria. He said to buy a gun you had to do a mental health test at a police station before you buy one.

That's not a bad idea...


Also, anyone know what guns fire a .223 caliber round? Apparently that is the caliber of the rifle being used.

M-16/M4 and clones.

We are now learning that a male is being questioned by investigators, but he is not being called a suspect, CNN's Susan Candiotti reports.

That is probably the brother we keep on hearing about.

Lisa Procaccini, the parent of an 8-year-old at the school, tells CNN that her daughter said school officials kept her calm during the shooting and told her the loud noise was hammering going on.

I wonder what stories will be coming from the teachers. Seems like there are often stories after those kind of things where the teachers tried to make a run at the shooter to protect the kids.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
How do we treat the actual problem though? Mental health screenings at all levels of school? Increased availability of care?

It's a start... I know plenty of people that need mental help and they simply can't afford it.

It's not just that people cannot afford it.

A great many people do not want mental help as well, which is another hurdle. They see it as anything from "being weak" to worrying about the stigma of seeing a mental health professional and any number of reasons.

 Frazzled wrote:
M-16/M4 and clones.

And that type of gun is easily available to get?

 Alfndrate wrote:

 CDK wrote:
Like I said before it's not Entirely the guns, It's the Lack of access to mental health. I literally was just talking to someone at work who was originally from Bulgaria. He said to buy a gun you had to do a mental health test at a police station before you buy one.

That's not a bad idea...


Also, anyone know what guns fire a .223 caliber round? Apparently that is the caliber of the rifle being used.

AR-15s and Ruger Mini 14s, seem the most likely in this situation. But the .223 is a pretty popular round, so it could be a wide variety of weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
How do we treat the actual problem though? Mental health screenings at all levels of school? Increased availability of care?

It's a start... I know plenty of people that need mental help and they simply can't afford it.

It's not just that people cannot afford it.

A great many people do not want mental help as well, which is another hurdle. They see it as anything from "being weak" to worrying about the stigma of seeing a mental health professional and any number of reasons.

Quoted for truth, it took me a couple months to seek help for depression and some other issues connected to my abusive psycho ex

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
M-16/M4 and clones.

And that type of gun is easily available to get?

You need to pass a background check - criminal record for crimes and arrests, as well as mental portion aka not escapee or semething. In Texas there are a few other bits as well IIRC. Although there are federal limits there are also state limits as well. SOme states have waiting periods and much more stringent requirements, up to effectively banning firearms and different capacities.

EDIT: Evidently there is no typing test required.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
M-16/M4 and clones.

And that type of gun is easily available to get?

You need to pass a background check - criminal record for crimes and arrests, as well as mental portion aka not escapee or semething. In Texas there are a few other bits as well IIRC. Although there are federal limits there are also state limits as well. SOme states have waiting periods and much more stringent requirements, up to effectively banning firearms and different capacities.

That's what I thought, sorry been conversing about the availability of getting your hands on such a firearm with someone who says it's really easy to buy a .223 caliber gun on the fly...

I'm looking up local and connecticut firearm laws... Note: Looking at the local hunting shop has various assault rifles with the capability to fire .223 and they're over a grand... I don't have the capabilities to do that lol..

For all my weapons so far I just had to walk into the store, fill out the paper, they call the federal gun number, and 5 minutes later I'm out the door fully armed.

Yeah, .223 doesn't really tell you anything beyond the size of the round. Someone on twitter had posted a picture of a fully kitted out M4 and said something to the effect of "This is a .223 rifle. How is this even legal?" A .223 can also be a simple bolt action hunting rifle. There is a huge difference in effective application of those two weapons, even though they use the same round.

 Easy E wrote:

 CDK wrote:
Even more reasons for my family to home school.

While part of me wants to blame guns, I actually blame the lack of mental health care in our country. Not only is there the stigma of getting help but then you have have to pay a lot of money to get it.

This. The gun violence is a symptom. The cause is mental illness. if we had better methods for people to identify and deal with mental helath issues; we would see School Shootings be reduced.

I think it's easy to blame mental illness. It's harder to fathom someone did this just because they are evil.

As I'm working towards becoming an officer of the law, this just got me thinking how would I handle this? I thought about my old elementary school, about all the worst locations and situations he could create. How a stray bullet could probably break through one of those cheap walls and hit a child. About getting jumped by the suspect. Seeing the dead children and teachers. It's truly nightmarish all around.

I would like to thank the officers who took him down. I know they will be spending the next 24-82 hours awake, giving statements and being investigated for destroying this animal. Their thanks is to be investigated for a federal crime. I wish them peace from this event.

I can only express my sadness to the people slain and the families destroyed by this act. I know no thing I say or do can rectify or heal this. I am sorry for their loss.

 d-usa wrote:
For all my weapons so far I just had to walk into the store, fill out the paper, they call the federal gun number, and 5 minutes later I'm out the door fully armed.

For those of us that are interested:

Connecticut's Gun Laws - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Connecticut

New Jersey's Gun Laws (Suspect was apparently from Hoboken, so he might have purchased in NJ) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Jersey


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Yeah, .223 doesn't really tell you anything beyond the size of the round. Someone on twitter had posted a picture of a fully kitted out M4 and said something to the effect of "This is a .223 rifle. How is this even legal?" A .223 can also be a simple bolt action hunting rifle. There is a huge difference in effective application of those two weapons, even though they use the same round.

Was it from Buzzfeed? Lol I was given the same thing...

 d-usa wrote:
For all my weapons so far I just had to walk into the store, fill out the paper, they call the federal gun number, and 5 minutes later I'm out the door fully armed.

The federal gun number is the NCIS background check.

 Surtur wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 CDK wrote:
Even more reasons for my family to home school.

While part of me wants to blame guns, I actually blame the lack of mental health care in our country. Not only is there the stigma of getting help but then you have have to pay a lot of money to get it.

This. The gun violence is a symptom. The cause is mental illness. if we had better methods for people to identify and deal with mental helath issues; we would see School Shootings be reduced.

I think it's easy to blame mental illness. It's harder to fathom someone did this just because they are evil.

And it is all too easy to think there is one trigger.
As more information comes out, it will become more clear and making a simple statement like "someone did this just because they are evil" is so blatantly ill-informed that you might as well have said "He did it because he was crazy".

As I'm working towards becoming an officer of the law, this just got me thinking how would I handle this? I thought about my old elementary school, about all the worst locations and situations he could create. How a stray bullet could probably break through one of those cheap walls and hit a child. About getting jumped by the suspect. Seeing the dead children and teachers. It's truly nightmarish all around.

I would like to thank the officers who took him down. I know they will be spending the next 24-82 hours awake, giving statements and being investigated for destroying this animal. Their thanks is to be investigated for a federal crime. I wish them peace from this event.

I can only express my sadness to the people slain and the families destroyed by this act. I know no thing I say or do can rectify or heal this. I am sorry for their loss.

Let me put it like this.

If you're going to express statements like this?
You are not the kind of person I want working in law enforcement with me.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 CDK wrote:
Even more reasons for my family to home school.

While part of me wants to blame guns, I actually blame the lack of mental health care in our country. Not only is there the stigma of getting help but then you have have to pay a lot of money to get it.

This. The gun violence is a symptom. The cause is mental illness. if we had better methods for people to identify and deal with mental helath issues; we would see School Shootings be reduced.

I think it's easy to blame mental illness. It's harder to fathom someone did this just because they are evil.

And it is all too easy to think there is one trigger.
As more information comes out, it will become more clear and making a simple statement like "someone did this just because they are evil" is so blatantly ill-informed that you might as well have said "He did it because he was crazy".

As I'm working towards becoming an officer of the law, this just got me thinking how would I handle this? I thought about my old elementary school, about all the worst locations and situations he could create. How a stray bullet could probably break through one of those cheap walls and hit a child. About getting jumped by the suspect. Seeing the dead children and teachers. It's truly nightmarish all around.

I would like to thank the officers who took him down. I know they will be spending the next 24-82 hours awake, giving statements and being investigated for destroying this animal. Their thanks is to be investigated for a federal crime. I wish them peace from this event.

I can only express my sadness to the people slain and the families destroyed by this act. I know no thing I say or do can rectify or heal this. I am sorry for their loss.

Let me put it like this.

If you're going to express statements like this?
You are not the kind of person I want working in law enforcement with me.

What is wrong with anything I said?

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Yeah, .223 doesn't really tell you anything beyond the size of the round. Someone on twitter had posted a picture of a fully kitted out M4 and said something to the effect of "This is a .223 rifle. How is this even legal?" A .223 can also be a simple bolt action hunting rifle. There is a huge difference in effective application of those two weapons, even though they use the same round.

Was it from Buzzfeed? Lol I was given the same thing...

It was retweeted and repeated by a bunch of people...demonstrating that ignorance is contagious. That's probably a little harsh as it's natural when people are as emotionally charged as they are right now, but at best it's people bandwagoning around a cause without doing a little bit of fact checking. At worst, it's straight up propaganda to promote a cause.

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
For all my weapons so far I just had to walk into the store, fill out the paper, they call the federal gun number, and 5 minutes later I'm out the door fully armed.

The federal gun number is the NCIS background check.

Thanks, I knew it was some sort of check but I couldn't remember the name of it.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Yeah, .223 doesn't really tell you anything beyond the size of the round. Someone on twitter had posted a picture of a fully kitted out M4 and said something to the effect of "This is a .223 rifle. How is this even legal?" A .223 can also be a simple bolt action hunting rifle. There is a huge difference in effective application of those two weapons, even though they use the same round.

Was it from Buzzfeed? Lol I was given the same thing...

It was retweeted and repeated by a bunch of people...demonstrating that ignorance is contagious. That's probably a little harsh as it's natural when people are as emotionally charged as they are right now, but at best it's people bandwagoning around a cause without doing a little bit of fact checking. At worst, it's straight up propaganda to promote a cause.

Yeah... I have no problem with those that think we should adjust gun control laws (within reason), and they gang up on any logical argument coming from the other side, and just spit out anything without thinking about it...

Note: there are these types of people on both sides of the gun control argument. I'm just not on the "REGULATE REGULATE!" side of things...

 Kanluwen wrote:

And it is all too easy to think there is one trigger.
As more information comes out, it will become more clear and making a simple statement like "someone did this just because they are evil" is so blatantly ill-informed that you might as well have said "He did it because he was crazy".

While there may be a much longer and more detailed explanation, it still boils down to anyone who deliberately shoots a 5 year old kid is evil and/or crazy



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Yeah, .223 doesn't really tell you anything beyond the size of the round. Someone on twitter had posted a picture of a fully kitted out M4 and said something to the effect of "This is a .223 rifle. How is this even legal?" A .223 can also be a simple bolt action hunting rifle. There is a huge difference in effective application of those two weapons, even though they use the same round.

Was it from Buzzfeed? Lol I was given the same thing...

It was retweeted and repeated by a bunch of people...demonstrating that ignorance is contagious. That's probably a little harsh as it's natural when people are as emotionally charged as they are right now, but at best it's people bandwagoning around a cause without doing a little bit of fact checking. At worst, it's straight up propaganda to promote a cause.

Yeah... I have no problem with those that think we should adjust gun control laws (within reason), and they gang up on any logical argument coming from the other side, and just spit out anything without thinking about it...

Note: there are these types of people on both sides of the gun control argument. I'm just not on the "REGULATE REGULATE!" side of things...

Absolutely. It happens over every issue. Human nature, I guess. Personally, I think there should be more gun regulation as well as more gun education, but am against the outright banning of weapons

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
For all my weapons so far I just had to walk into the store, fill out the paper, they call the federal gun number, and 5 minutes later I'm out the door fully armed.

The federal gun number is the NCIS background check.

Thanks, I knew it was some sort of check but I couldn't remember the name of it.

Interesting it always took an hour or two for my background check to clear fully. But then we do NCIS and CBI (Colorado Bureau of Investigation) background checks here and CBI can take it's sweet time when it wants to.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
For all my weapons so far I just had to walk into the store, fill out the paper, they call the federal gun number, and 5 minutes later I'm out the door fully armed.

The federal gun number is the NCIS background check.

Thanks, I knew it was some sort of check but I couldn't remember the name of it.

Interesting it always took an hour or two for my background check to clear fully. But then we do NCIS and CBI (Colorado Bureau of Investigation) background checks here and CBI can take it's sweet time when it wants to.

They always expect mine to take a while, I think it is my dual citizenship that makes them concerned. But it's never taken more than a few minutes for me. My brothers (two of them) always take a while, my parents are remarried and I ended up with two brothers with the same first and last name and similar social security numbers. So the system seems to always flag them or makes some sort of hassle for them.

 Surtur wrote:

What is wrong with anything I said?

So much.

I would like to thank the officers who took him down. I know they will be spending the next 24-82 hours awake, giving statements and being investigated for destroying this animal. Their thanks is to be investigated for a federal crime. I wish them peace from this event.

The fact that you are:
1) Associating the shooter as an "animal" is despicable. He was a human being, same as you or I. His actions do not mandate any kind of "special consideration" on the part of officers, beyond the fact that he was armed and they would have to utilize caution accordingly. Treating it as anything more than that is unacceptable in the eyes of any department OR its overseers.
and
2) Implying that the officers are "unappreciated" due to the fact that they are going to be investigated, which is actually a routine thing in officer involved shootings.

They know what will happen if they pull the trigger. They also know that it is a requirement to ensure that they are not abusing their station.

What officers want to do or how they feel about a suspect should never affect how they handle a situation. If it comes out that they gunned the man down after he had surrendered, there is going to be a public perception that the officers should have been commended for their actions--but the officers know that is not what they are supposed to do.