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2012/12/25 07:46:48
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I have been/was/is (does it ever really go away?) been diagnosed with Massive Depressive Disorder (I prefer "Clinical Depression" because MDD can apparently be confusing... I had one person think it was Bipolar... >.< and while I can concur on valuation... I can't say I ever had a desire to "rampage".
I haven't either but I can see, knowing the symptoms of MDD, how some people might manifest such a desire.
She had been experiencing 'mild' depression (what her shrink told her, supposedly, not having experienced it first hand) before they prescribed Paxil to her (without disclosing all it's possible side effects) but discontinuation syndrome hit her hard enough that she literally tried to step out in front of a bus within two days of the earliest possible onset. I'm not sure how you'd view that, but I'd call it a several degree of magnitude difference.
I would guess that you were trying to blame someone other than your friend, for her death.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 08:04:44
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/12/25 08:12:34
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
I don't really have enough experience with anti-depressants to comment. I took a lot of them. They made me fat and screwed with my head. I'm no longer fat (by fat I mean went from 172lbs to over 230lbs) and you'd have to tie me down and forcibly inject me to get me to take them again. They got me through a critical time period... but those things are scary.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
I would guess that you were trying to blame someone other than your friend, for her death.
Well, if she was dead, you'd have a point. After she got out of the hospital, they slowly phased her off Paxil and switched her to something else. She's been ok for a year now, and isn't taking anything at all now.
Kalashnikov, I can say, reading all the things I have lately, I'm glad that I've absolutely refused any medication for my 'mental illnesses' (ICD) as they wanted to put me on SSRId as well. (Speed before that) I'll pass.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/25 08:56:13
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/25 09:18:29
Subject: Re:Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
So after everyone has begun blaming everyone else (such as the NRA blaming violent video games, movies, the media and pretty much everything else but guns) Tycho and Gabe at Penny Arcade have come in with this:
Spoiler:
It’s rare, but not completely unheard of, for us to check in on some political thing. It’s something we’re reticent to do; it’s easy to do wrong, and usually is, and so we avoid it the same way you might avoid any other treacherous pit.
The trouble is that, occasionally, an entity can dig a trench of this kind entirely around you, and it cannot be avoided. For the purposes of the metaphor, flight is impossible; I know you are enthusiastic about games, and have already begun to devise a method of escape. I appreciate it! Let me know.
You may resent such incursions as today’s strip, and rest assured, I resent them also. I vastly prefer our ordinary business, which may be thought of as the application of psychic unguents. I don’t have any particular interest in carrying water for the Gaming Industrial Complex, which is fraught on its best day, like any human endeavor. I sure as gak don’t give it unfettered access to my children. But I couldn’t be expected to sit completely inert on a day when ALL media - every way that a society talks to itself, every form of communication - was being set up the bomb. It was beyond surreal, and drove a wedge straight through their own base of support; their choice of boogeyman made it generational. It’s the same message I heard in church circa 1986, frankly. The message discipline is incredible.
I grew up in a hunting family; I’m not afraid of guns, but I certainly don’t worship them. They are devices which throw lethal metal at high speeds. I mean, right? It stands to reason that such devices would be correlated with injury, and it stands to reason that we could discuss the extent to which these injuries could be foreseen or avoided. If you don’t want me to talk about this kind of stuff, go make your world less dumb. That will deprive me of the opportunity.
Merry Christmas, or your localized Christmas equivalent,
(CW)TB out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 09:19:18
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2012/12/25 14:51:39
Subject: Re:Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
A Town Called Malus wrote: So after everyone has begun blaming everyone else (such as the NRA blaming violent video games, movies, the media and pretty much everything else but guns) Tycho and Gabe at Penny Arcade have come in with this:
That was my primary issue with the NRA's statement. (Though why blame guns when there's a perfectly good dead lunatic to hold responsible?). This is also the general area I bid the conservatives in the US a... well it's not fond, more of a handshake and awkward slouch into no man's land between the two entrenched forces. Both factions have issues with restricting things they don't like generally speaking, whether it's the rights of others to do things they don't like (like say get married, or play a video game) or in the other trench do terrible things like say mean things. Not grouping everyone together or anything, not saying every Rep or Dem is like that, but both parties could stand to pay a bit more attention to the constitution.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 14:52:06
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Well, if she was dead, you'd have a point. After she got out of the hospital, they slowly phased her off Paxil and switched her to something else. She's been ok for a year now, and isn't taking anything at all now.
I assumed that, in light of the discussion of suicide, that she had taken her own life. My mistake, and good that she's still on this mortal coil.
Discontinuation syndrome is terrible, however withdrawal in the wake of taking a given drug for extended periods of time is not unique to antidepressants. It sort of just goes with the territory when taking any such substance for extended periods, though severity will obviously vary.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/12/25 17:44:41
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
dogma wrote: It sort of just goes with the territory when taking any such substance for extended periods, though severity will obviously vary.
Which was sort of my point. I'm thinking that these guys might represent a 'worst case scenario'. Someone still functional, but left devoid of valuation of life or empathy, and motivated by irrational anger or frustration.
There are very few things they all have in common: they're all young men (the most 'at risk' demographic), they all were taking anti-depressants. Everything else is all over the place.
While it's still rarer than being struck by lightening, it's seemingly much more frequent than in the rest of the world, even in countries with similar levels of firearm availability. So something is obviously in play here.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/25 17:59:27
Subject: Re:Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
How do they know who has a gun and who doesn't? Only those that have a licence, and people sell guns second hand, or pass them to friends. One obvious problem with tackling gun ownership is that you just don't know for sure how many guns there are and who has them. And if anyone does break into someone's house thinking they'll be safe they'll be in for a nasty surprise. Little good can come of publishing this information.
2012/12/25 18:47:23
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
Howard A Treesong wrote: How do they know who has a gun and who doesn't? Only those that have a licence, and people sell guns second hand, or pass them to friends. One obvious problem with tackling gun ownership is that you just don't know for sure how many guns there are and who has them. And if anyone does break into someone's house thinking they'll be safe they'll be in for a nasty surprise. Little good can come of publishing this information.
In New York, you're required to get a license in order to own a pistol. New York, as far as I'm aware, is a "may issue" state, which means the government's under no obligation to furnish you with the license just because you applied. Consequently, it wouldn't really shock me if the bulk of those folks were either active or retired LEOs of varying stripes.
2012/12/25 19:12:16
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
In New York, you're required to get a license in order to own a pistol. New York, as far as I'm aware, is a "may issue" state, which means the government's under no obligation to furnish you with the license just because you applied. Consequently, it wouldn't really shock me if the bulk of those folks were either active or retired LEOs of varying stripes.
My understanding was that was New York City, not New York State. Further, there's a big hole in that: Native Reservations and Pennsylvania. NY and PA reciprocate, so if you have a PA license or permit, NY honors it. On the res, gun laws in general pretty much go out the window, as they typically don't have any, and are under very little obligation to enforce US law. You can't sell guns to natives on the res, but it doesn't mean natives can't sell gun to you.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/25 19:15:06
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
Which was sort of my point. I'm thinking that these guys might represent a 'worst case scenario'. Someone still functional, but left devoid of valuation of life or empathy, and motivated by irrational anger or frustration.
A 'worst case scenario' of what? Depression? Again, I don't know why you're focusing on the medication.
The one thing we can probably agree on is that medication isn't enough. It must also be accompanied by therapy. Also, people should be more tolerant of the need for therapy, as the stigma associated with it dissuades many people from seeking it.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/12/25 19:17:38
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
BaronIveagh wrote: My understanding was that was New York City, not New York State. Further, there's a big hole in that: Native Reservations and Pennsylvania. NY and PA reciprocate, so if you have a PA license or permit, NY honors it. On the res, gun laws in general pretty much go out the window, as they typically don't have any, and are under very little obligation to enforce US law. You can't sell guns to natives on the res, but it doesn't mean natives can't sell gun to you.
Really? I thought it was all of New York state. I'll have to do a little more digging.
Edit: Well, that didn't take long. Seems the reporter, the publisher, and the CEO of Gannet have all had their home addresses and phone numbers, culled from public data, posted on a few different sites around the net. I suspect people who object to this particular stunt will be calling to politely discuss their grievances over the next few days.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 19:37:26
2012/12/25 20:05:42
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
A 'worst case scenario' of what? Depression? Again, I don't know why you're focusing on the medication.
The one thing we can probably agree on is that medication isn't enough. It must also be accompanied by therapy. Also, people should be more tolerant of the need for therapy, as the stigma associated with it dissuades many people from seeking it.
Because it's not like people in other places don't get depressed. Even places with access to guns. What they don't have is the same prescription guidelines as the US. Further, some of the shooters, based on what limited information I was able to dig up, were not on anti-depressants to treat depression. SSRIs are used to treat several other mental issues, including ICD, which I suffer from. (There's a nightmare for you guys.) I can say from my own experiences that someone like me, an Impulsive-Compulsive, would be the worst person imaginable to have go through discontinuation syndrome. Total divorce from humanity, no thought of consequences, methodical, hyperactive, and aggressive. '
Consider this: about the age of these killers, I deliberately gave a man 3rd degree burns with a hot piece of steel and laughed as he screamed (in my defense, he started off with a gun). Do you understand why I say that adding something like discontinuation syndrome on top that would lead to things like school shootings and mass murder?
Though I do agree about the therapy thing. Though, granted, it doesn't really help some of us, I like to imagine I'm in the minority on that.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/25 21:18:30
Subject: Re:Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
From my facebook wall in response to me posting this: "NRA within the next 48 hours: Firefighters need to be armed."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stupid idiot I happen to have as a friend on facebook: "More gun purchases are because of Obama's plan to continue enacting Agenda 21, this is part of it. Wouldn't doubt it if these shooters had the exact same weapons and bulletproof vests already supplied to the CT school shooting and the Batman massacre. Irony would be more outstanding than it already is!
Connect the dots dude, is pretty obvious. I know you like good conspiracy theories, you've posted enough of them in the past, but look into the early witness reports for both shootings, and the police helicopter video for the CT school shooting, and tell me what you learn from it. Also, why are the Batman shooter and CT school shooter's weapons of choice almost identical? AR-15 Bushmaster with hundreds of rounds, Glock in .40cal, 12 gauge shotgun, etc. CT school shooter had a SIG 9mms well, but still...... Look up the dots instead of replying with a youtube video, things are getting out of hand down there. if this happened under Bush admin, you'd be all over it."
My reply: I'm sorry **** but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Prp615mmDk -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact that people believe this stuff is incredibly depressing, especially in the wake of seeing gun sales skyrocket across the states.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 21:21:20
Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.
2012/12/26 01:35:05
Subject: Re:Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
I'd be fething livid if a newspaper published my name and address on the Internet in connection with anything. Especially my ownership of a tool I'm morally obligated to safeguard in my absence. Why don't we make an interactive map of the people with burgler alarms and children of molestable age with profile pics for the decerning pedo.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/12/26 01:42:17
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
Much like I think we have more or less agreed in that other thread. "legal" and "moral" aren't synonymous. I'd probably be inspired to beat the gak out of the editors who put that together.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/12/26 02:05:08
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
True, but compiling a report of, say, all the nuclear facilities that failed their hostile intruder tests with dates and times probably wouldn't be a good thing, even though they are also public record.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/26 02:09:51
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
I wouldn't, because they get into how security was circumvented in each location. Hanging out a sign that says 'poorly secured nuclear material here!' isn't a good idea.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/26 02:55:12
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
Even Illinois disagrees. They've repeatedly denied access to FOID information when the media and even state attorney general has demanded it it be made open to the public.
Edit: FOID is Firearm Owner I.D. It's Illinois version of registration. The State Police are the only ones who have access to the information.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/26 03:37:29
Full Frontal Nerdity
2012/12/26 03:45:28
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
d-usa wrote: That would probably depend on state laws then. If it is public record in NY then publishing it is fine.
At the time there was no law preventing it's release. The FOIA was made, and the State Police denied it. The State Attorney General demanded they release it, and the State Legislature passed a bill protecting the information. They acted as a responsible government in that case.
It's a shame New York couldn't have.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2012/12/26 04:31:50
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
d-usa wrote: Then make it more secure. Maybe a bunch of pissed of neighbors contacting their congressman will force them to make things more secure.
The only neighbors the nuclear industry has are eight foot dandelions. No one in their right mind lives next to a nuclear plant. And Congress are the ones that demanded the studies in the first place. And then did nothing about them. There have been dozens of letter writing and petition drives over the years. They have managed to do feth all.
You must have missed out on how the Washington-Big Business dynamic works. 'We the People' don't even get a reach around.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/26 15:11:33
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/26 04:36:32
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
d-usa wrote: And you are advocating that "we the people" don't deserve the information we are legally entitled to if the information is bad.
The problem is what will be done with that information. Let's say I do an FOIA search and find the Government has been squirreling away a design that would allow the average homeowner to build a 40 megaton thermonuclear weapon using every day items he has around the house. Which is the right thing to do, keep it under my hat, or post it in it's entirety on the internet? Or on the cover of Time?
I hate to say it, but most people would gak on the common good to get ahead. So what if the fact you smear the information all over the public forum to make a quick buck gets people killed? It's not your responsibility that others took the information that you published and used it to rape, rob and murder hundreds, thousands, possibly millions, depending on what it is and how dangerous...
"If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." - Albert Einstein on Nuclear War.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/26 05:53:47
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
and while I can concur on valuation... I can't say I ever had a desire to "rampage". 
