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Hi Dakka,

I have a relatively simple question to ask. Can somebody please tell me where in the turn a vehicle would roll for a cover save? I was reading through the BRB and it doesn't really cover it under the cover save section. It just tells you how the vehicle qualifies to receive the cover save. My brother and I have just recently started playing with vehicles and I thought it would be nice to know how it works. Also, the Big Mek's KFF work's to give the vehicle a 5+ as well correct?

Thanks In Advance,

KO

Any time you suffer a glancing or penetrating hit, you can roll your cover save to negate it.

If you suffer that hit in close combat, you cannot roll a cover save as the CC rules specifically forbid it.

Anytime the vehicle is shot at by an opposing unit, you immediately roll a cover save AFTER determining if the hits are pens or glances but BEFORE rolling results.

KarsaOrlong wrote:
Also, the Big Mek's KFF work's to give the vehicle a 5+ as well correct?

5+ cover save, correct

"The difference from the way cover works for other models is represented by the following exceptions to the normal rules for cover" P.74

So the only exceptions to normal cover saves are what are listed.

Therefore you take a cover save just as any other model that meets the criteria would take a cover save. Cover saves are on P.18

{Edit} Beaten to it :-)

Alright I assumed that was how it should work but I couldn't figure out how the penetrating and glancing factored in. So essentially its identical to the normal unit getting shot at. Roll for hits, glancing or penetrating, save, if fail saved then roll for result on table.

Thanks Guys.

I have another question regarding vehicle cover saves for you folks: Do vehicles get a cover save if obscured by random pieces of terrain, such as a rock or other object? If it's not inside an "area" such as ruins, fortifications, etc. but just 25% or more obscured from sight by anything, would it get a cover save?

 Homeskillet wrote:
I have another question regarding vehicle cover saves for you folks: Do vehicles get a cover save if obscured by random pieces of terrain, such as a rock or other object? If it's not inside an "area" such as ruins, fortifications, etc. but just 25% or more obscured from sight by anything, would it get a cover save?

Why wouldn't they?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
I have another question regarding vehicle cover saves for you folks: Do vehicles get a cover save if obscured by random pieces of terrain, such as a rock or other object? If it's not inside an "area" such as ruins, fortifications, etc. but just 25% or more obscured from sight by anything, would it get a cover save?

Why wouldn't they?

My group had been, but I just went to a small tourney in which cover saves were not determined like this. So, what type of cover save would you give for things not specifically listed in the BRB? I think the BRB spells out things like razorwire, ruins, etc. Nothing about wrecked vehicles, boulders, etc. How do you all determine this in your games?

4+ if its ruins, 5+ for almost everything else.

rigeld2 wrote:
4+ if its ruins, 5+ for almost everything else.

Not really...

There is a section in the brb called " battlefield debris" that should help you determine what type of save your terrain offers.

Wrecked vehicles would probably be "wreckage/rubble" and provide a 4+ as well as things like walls, barricades, tank traps and hill crests. There are even some things that provide 3+ while tanglewire is only a 6+.

It's far from 4+ from ruins and 5+ for almost everything else.

He asked how we determined it in our games. I answered that question. I wasn't citing the rule book at all.

 BarBoBot wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
4+ if its ruins, 5+ for almost everything else.

Not really...

There is a section in the brb called " battlefield debris" that should help you determine what type of save your terrain offers.

Actually, there is far better way of easily seeing what type of cover terrain generally should provide: cover chart on page 18. On the section about Cover saves.

 BarBoBot wrote:
Wrecked vehicles would probably be "wreckage/rubble" and provide a 4+ as well

No they aren't. Rulebook explicitly tells you that they give 5+ save: Page 74, Wrecked vehicles: Wrecked vehicles are left on the table and effectively become a piece of terrain (conferring a 5+cover save)

Basically, what Rigeld said is correct: excluding ruins and walls/barricades, 90% of terrain gives 5+ cover. So if in doubt, use 5+.

That's incredibly vague, and untrue.

In addition to ruins, over half of the terrain described in the battlefield terrain section is 4+ or better saves.... In fact more are 4+ or better than 5+

In addition to ruins/ walls/ barricades, you have hills crests/ridge lines, tank traps, trenches, wreckage/rubble that all offer 4+.

Statuarys, shrines, and shield generators offer a 3+.

Just saying that ruins are 4+ and 90% of everything else is 5+ is not accurate.

You are right about the wreckage though. I was thinking of explodes! results where it says you may place a crater or wreckage, but I see now that it says "wreckage (area terrain) or impact crater" which are both 5+

If the intervening terrain obscures 25% or more of the vehicle - they get the cover save (so ruins = 4+, grass = 5+ etc etc).

if the facing is completely covered but another part of the vehicle is still visible, they get +1 to that cover save.


BRB, page 75.

You guys answered my question perfectly, thank you!

Remember vehicles can also take invulnerable saves instead of cover if they have one.

 BarBoBot wrote:
"wreckage (area terrain) or impact crater" which are both 5+

Actually wreckage is a 4+ P. 105

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BarBoBot wrote:
"wreckage (area terrain) or impact crater" which are both 5+

Actually wreckage is a 4+ P. 105

Your right that wreckage give 4+, but in the rules for explodes!, it lists it as "wreckage(area terrain)"

Area terrain has its own rules that give a 5+ cover save, which makes more sense since your allowed to put wreckage(area terrain) or an impact crater which both would offer the same cover.

Right so it is wreckage and (area terrain)

So it gives a 4+ cover because of wreckage and a 5+ cover because of (area terrain).

That interpretation would allow for 1 player to have a better cover save from explodes results than their opponent if they have craters vs wreckage.

It seems more logical that they placed the words (area terrain) after wreckage from explodes! results to denote that it differs from normal wreckage, not just to give a 5+ save in addition to a 4+ save.

You can certainly interpret it that way if you choose, but my opinion is that it's not correct.

RAW a 4+ cover because of wreckage and a 5+ cover because of (area terrain) is correct.

RAI, It does seem more logical that they placed the words (area terrain) after wreckage from explodes! results to denote that it differs from normal wreckage. But the rules make no mention of that.

I agree, from a strict RAW standpoint, it reads as a 4+ and a 5+.

Another well written rule from GW lol

Well, actually it's just a straight 4+ cover save going off of the rule on page 105 that states "Wreckage/Rubble are area terrain".

Area terrain only gives a 5+ save in 6th

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Area terrain only gives a 5+ save in 6th

Yes, but the rule for wreckage/rubble says it's a 4+ and that it is area terrain.

Pg 105, bottom right.

"Wreckage and rubble are area terrain. If a model is in cover behind wreckage or rubble, it has a 4+ cover save" (RB p105)

In other words, if a model is in the terrain but is not obscured by it, then it gets the normal 5+ area terrain cover save. If the model is obscured by the terrain (i.e. "behind" it and in cover), then it gets a 4+.

 Kevin949 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Area terrain only gives a 5+ save in 6th

Yes, but the rule for wreckage/rubble says it's a 4+ and that it is area terrain.

Pg 105, bottom right.

You said it was a "straight" 4+ save; it is not. It is the same as the ground floor of a based ruin - if you are actually obscured you get a 4+ save, if you are just "in" the terrain you get a 5+ save