Necrons vs Blood angels

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**Monster Rain**

I have to laugh at the notion that C:SM has better assault options than Blood Angels.

When your basic troops are Assault Marines that can be given Feel No Pain, and so can the Terminators for that matter, the very idea is ridiculous. And then you have Death Company. And Mephiston is no slouch either.

**Martel732**

Tomten wrote:
BA eat stuff in CC and SM do pretty well in everything.

That's the problem. BA don't eat stuff in HTH anymore. They get beat. A lot. So that begs the question of how to design a BA army. After reading what is available to Necrons, I have 0% faith in the BA ability to beat them in HTH. I have to find alternative methods like hybrid lists and assaulting weakened units.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:
I have to laugh at the notion that C:SM has better assault options than Blood Angels.

When your basic troops are Assault Marines that can be given Feel No Pain, and so can the Terminators for that matter, the very idea is ridiculous. And then you have Death Company. And Mephiston is no slouch either.

Basic assault troops aren't useful if they can't win any HTH combats. Against most HTH attacks, FNP has been nerfed. DC is a trap for BA players as they don't score, and are no better than ASM if counterattacked. I would never pay 250 for Mephiston now that he is AP3.

**Tomten**

Martel732 wrote:
Tomten wrote:
BA eat stuff in CC and SM do pretty well in everything.

That's the problem. BA don't eat stuff in HTH anymore. They get beat. A lot. So that begs the question of how to design a BA army. After reading what is available to Necrons, I have 0% faith in the BA ability to beat them in HTH. I have to find alternative methods like hybrid lists and assaulting weakened units.

Haha ive noticed that. one time Astorath, PF sergeant and like 3 assault marines couldnt kill like 7 immortals. it was hilarious

**Martel732**

That's just one incident, but it is anecdotal of the overall problem. Everyone says that 6th edition made mech lists worse, and that's kind of true, but life didn't get much better for BA jumper lists, either.

I was proud of myself for coming up with FNP bike strategies for the BA, until I realized that C:SM can do this on all their plague marines trivially. They can even make their raptors Init 5, which is better than any assault team the BA have.

**Tomten**

I like resurrection orbs

**Texx**

Note: if you plan on fighting BA as Necrons, don't take large units (like over 10 models). The best way for marines to kill necrons is to sweeping advance. If you have a big unit of 20 warriors with lord, that is a prime target to get charged. If you lose by 3 or 4 (not too hard for assault marines), you end up having about a 50/50 chance of the whole unit being wiped out (sweeping advance negates RP, res orb, ghost ark).

**Martel732**

Texx is right. Sweeping advance is one major way assault marines can still make a lot of hay.

**RegalPhantom**

Umm... guys, just to clear this up, Martel is talking about Chaos Space Marines, not Codex Space Marines. I think only about half of you noticed it.

And btw, for future reference:

C:SM == Codex Space Marines
CSM == Chaos Space Marines

**Martel732**

Oh crap. That's my bad. Sorry for the confusion.

**Crazyterran**

Martel732 wrote:

It all comes down to C:SM HTH tricks being better than BA in 6th edition. This isn't surprising given that their dex is written for 6th edition. BA have had a lot of years towards the top. I'm not even that pissed or anything; in fact, this makes battlefield accomplishments even greater! Anything is better than 2nd, lol!

EDIT: Read the whole thread. Still, BA are atleast as strong as CSM and everything that Isn't a Grey Knight, Wolfy, Imperial Guard, or Robot Zombies.

**Tomten**

Texx wrote:
Note: if you plan on fighting BA as Necrons, don't take large units (like over 10 models). The best way for marines to kill necrons is to sweeping advance. If you have a big unit of 20 warriors with lord, that is a prime target to get charged. If you lose by 3 or 4 (not too hard for assault marines), you end up having about a 50/50 chance of the whole unit being wiped out (sweeping advance negates RP, res orb, ghost ark).

Thanks for the advice

**Praxiss**

I regularly lose to my friends BA army with my necrons.

The main issue i have is DoA (BAs only scatter 1D6 on deep strike). He tends to leave a few small assault sqauds in reserve and then DS in and melta all my vehicles in one shootign phase. After that he is pretty much free to charge in and there is NO way a necron warriors or immortal squads is going to beat a MEQ sqaud with FNP in CC. Lose-Sweep-Death-Repeat

**Tomten**

Praxiss wrote:
I regularly lose to my friends BA army with my necrons.

The main issue i have is DoA (BAs only scatter 1D6 on deep strike). He tends to leave a few small assault sqauds in reserve and then DS in and melta all my vehicles in one shootign phase. After that he is pretty much free to charge in and there is NO way a necron warriors or immortal squads is going to beat a MEQ sqaud with FNP in CC. Lose-Sweep-Death-Repeat

Use fliers

Automatically Appended Next Post:
do you take your jink saves?

**Praxiss**

Yeah, funding is an issue. I have tried a nightscythe a few times and i think i'm just not using it effectively. I have one flyer kit that i've not fully glued so i can play it as either a doomscythe or a nightscythe.

I did play a game using a Doomscythe for the first time and really liked how reliable the Death Ray is....but is it worth 75 points? There's not a lot of long ranged stuff my army can bring that can pop high AV (no doomsday ark, no stalker) so having a S10 AP1 long range gun is quite nice.

**Tomten**

Praxiss wrote:
Yeah, funding is an issue. I have tried a nightscythe a few times and i think i'm just not using it effectively. I have one flyer kit that i've not fully glued so i can play it as either a doomscythe or a nightscythe.

I did play a game using a Doomscythe for the first time and really liked how reliable the Death Ray is....but is it worth 75 points? There's not a lot of long ranged stuff my army can bring that can pop high AV (no doomsday ark, no stalker) so having a S10 AP1 long range gun is quite nice.

Of course its worth 75 points, you dont even need to roll to hit and you can hit multiple units. And its on a flier

**Martel732**

Praxiss wrote:
I regularly lose to my friends BA army with my necrons.

The main issue i have is DoA (BAs only scatter 1D6 on deep strike). He tends to leave a few small assault sqauds in reserve and then DS in and melta all my vehicles in one shootign phase. After that he is pretty much free to charge in and there is NO way a necron warriors or immortal squads is going to beat a MEQ sqaud with FNP in CC. Lose-Sweep-Death-Repeat

He can't assault you the turn he comes down. Use the "freeze frame" turn to rape him. If he's paying for DC, this should be pretty easy, actually, because DC trashes the BA's model count. Regular marines spammed with priests could be more problematic. If nothing else, assault his units you fear because most BA tricks don't work when they get assaulted.

I never use DoA because it is voluntarily piece-mealing one's army and also brings deep strike mishaps into the mix. In general, I think deep strike and reserves are garbage.

**Tomten**

Use scarabs

**Lordhat**

There is a Miscommunication here: "C:SM" is short hand for Codex: Space Marines, not Chaos Space Marines (which is shortened to "CSM" on Dakka). Note the inclusion of the colon on one, and not the other.

EDIT: I should really read the second page of a thread before posting.

**Martel732**

Yes, yes, I know. I was mistyping it. Sorry about that. Although I think both lists are better than the BA at this point.

I was intending to compare CSM HTH capabilities to the BA HTH capabilities in 6th edition.

**skoffs**

how about we just drop the "C:" and just stick with "SM" in the future to avoid any more unnecessary confusion?

**Lordhat**

skoffs wrote:
how about we just drop the "C:" and just stick with "SM" in the future to avoid any more unnecessary confusion?

It's a convention that has developed on Dakka over many years to unequivocally denote that the SM's in question come from the Vanilla codex, and are not just SM's in general.

**Tomten**

I thought we were talking about something else.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone used the Tomb stalker?