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 Ascalam wrote:
Dakkajets are AV 10 mate.

Anything S4 + can damage them just fine.

A unit of Fire Warriors has a decent chance of downing one, especially if it's close to.

thus why i shoot the fire warriors with it, exact same range means the faster and better pov model wins especially since it's twin-linked BS 3 18 shots on a waaagh turn that cuts all saves unless they hide behind an aegis defense line... which by the way the flyers easily break that since they can see above it.

also yes Strength 4 can hurt ... if rolls of 6 even land, and yes fire warriors are dangerous but anything can be dangerous before being wiped off the table, seriously what else in the tau army would you shoot at they horde armor and guns.

Hey, it does happen, although rare, it happens. Sides if its close enough for a unit of FW to rapid fire, that chance goes up.

 KingCracker wrote:
Hey, it does happen, although rare, it happens. Sides if its close enough for a unit of FW to rapid fire, that chance goes up.

absoluetely it can happen, should be rare. But it can happen

If the firewarriors are close enough to rapid fire, then you should get about four hits, so maybe one glance/penetration. One volley from the dakkajet ends almost all possibility of them downing it.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
What a lot of people forget is that the opponent is only going to field the tau battle force. So 1 suit, no broadsides, Stealthsuits if he can afford to bring them, firewarriors with a Devilfish, and one unit of Kroot. No markerlights.

You should have plenty available to take them down. The suit will be the only unit with a weapon that can damage the dakka jet.

Even assuming full WYWIWYG, the Tau player can field atleast 3 ML, and if you let WYSIWYG slide you can get up 6 easy with ML Drones. I suspect with the battle box to hit 500 points you will pretty mugh have to run the stealth suits with ML drone.

Orks do not defeat Tau. In their lucid moments they come to realize the rightness of our cause and join us...or die.

But if I wasan optimist as regards Orks I would certainly suggest Kommando heavy armies with Tons of careening Trukks protected by the KFF. Tau hate speed and they hate being hammer and anvil'd.

But thats if an Ork could beat Tau. Which they can't. But if they could. =)

Show up, Orks slaughter tau unless they have some insane rolls on turn 1. Use the koptaz to Kill the devilfish loaded with warriors asap so he cant unload and rapid fire you. Use your waaagh to close the distance, its 12 inches for rapid fire if I remeber correctly. Once your in close combat its all gravy. Kroot are a joke in cc, FW even more so.

Hobomedic wrote:
Show up, Orks slaughter tau unless they have some insane rolls on turn 1. Use the koptaz to Kill the devilfish loaded with warriors asap so he cant unload and rapid fire you. Use your waaagh to close the distance, its 12 inches for rapid fire if I remeber correctly. Once your in close combat its all gravy. Kroot are a joke in cc, FW even more so.

Have you ever noticed though, that sometimes orks attack with 20 boyz left... kill 6 Fire Warriors with alacrity and conviction...and then aren't 20 boyz anymore?

Sacrifice is the key to victory. Beware the lambs.

 Jancoran wrote:
Orks do not defeat Tau. In their lucid moments they come to realize the rightness of our cause and join us...or die.

But if I wasan optimist as regards Orks I would certainly suggest Kommando heavy armies with Tons of careening Trukks protected by the KFF. Tau hate speed and they hate being hammer and anvil'd.

But thats if an Ork could beat Tau. Which they can't. But if they could. =)

I'll ignore the disgusting amount of pretentiousness in this post, just to point out that kommandos aren't much use anymore, now that they can no longer assault out of reserve.

 Jancoran wrote:

Hobomedic wrote:
Show up, Orks slaughter tau unless they have some insane rolls on turn 1. Use the koptaz to Kill the devilfish loaded with warriors asap so he cant unload and rapid fire you. Use your waaagh to close the distance, its 12 inches for rapid fire if I remeber correctly. Once your in close combat its all gravy. Kroot are a joke in cc, FW even more so.

Have you ever noticed though, that sometimes orks attack with 20 boyz left... kill 6 Fire Warriors with alacrity and conviction...and then aren't 20 boyz anymore?

Sacrifice is the key to victory. Beware the lambs.

You mean because they get mowed down the next turn? You wont suffer more than 1 or 2 deaths on the assualt, even 6 on 6 in CC. Hopefully if your charging a group with 20 boyz that you know you can crush in CC you have staggered them so only a few boyz are close enough to get into CC, forcing the combat to end on the Tau players turn. Allowing you to pillage and plunder freely after it resolves and is now your turn again.

If the Tau player does being marker drones, then he is hurting himself even more on an expensive drone for a BS3 Markerlight.

He may run some of the firewarriors with carbines and just have them count as pathfinders though.

And if you get firewarriors to waste their shots trying to shoot down a Dakka jet, then you're on an easy road. The odds are really stacked against them and those shots would be better off shooting ground targets.

I agree. Too many people over look the benefits of using some units as pawns. Its yet another reason why I run buggies at the front of my builds. They are cheap as hell, and when people fall for that trick, then they wasted most of their army, wiping out a 90pt unit. So the rest of my army is hardly touched. OR they ignore the buggies and waste time moving around the unit of buggies that are now sideways and pumping bigshoota rounds into their squads. Win/Win if you ask me.

So Id suggest, finding something that you can use as bait and let your opponent waste his time and effort putting it down.

 loota boy wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Orks do not defeat Tau. In their lucid moments they come to realize the rightness of our cause and join us...or die.

But if I wasan optimist as regards Orks I would certainly suggest Kommando heavy armies with Tons of careening Trukks protected by the KFF. Tau hate speed and they hate being hammer and anvil'd.

But thats if an Ork could beat Tau. Which they can't. But if they could. =)

I'll ignore the disgusting amount of pretentiousness in this post, just to point out that kommandos aren't much use anymore, now that they can no longer assault out of reserve.

Doesn't matter. Still a grerat gambit. they can strike from infiltration when going second. Also, it squeezes the Tau deployment... And as for pretentiousness, well... It's Tau. Better beings can be pretentious.

Take a joke. A lot better. =)

So, if you're such a die hard fanboy for tau, what's with the ork avatar?

What is with that lately anyways? Avatar says Ork love, posts say Orks can go feth themselves.

*coughcoughharumphyorkwhat'shisnameharumphcough*

Uhg dont remind me



Should stay on topic at least half assed sooo.........erm.......whats a good way to tackle stealth suit spam?? My brothers wife plays Tau, and now that shes finished with college, she is wanting to expand her Tau with stealth suits thanks to the nice boost they got. Ideas?

 KingCracker wrote:
Uhg dont remind me



Should stay on topic at least half assed sooo.........erm.......whats a good way to tackle stealth suit spam?? My brothers wife plays Tau, and now that shes finished with college, she is wanting to expand her Tau with stealth suits thanks to the nice boost they got. Ideas?

I've never had a trouble with a Stealth squad, but the local Tau player only ever uses 1 squad. They have nasty guns, but I've never seen them kill anything!

The one time I went to do something about them was in 5th, when, after blowing up a Hammerhead, I assaulted them with my Deffkoptas, which kept them tied up for the whole game (really bad rolls on both sides).

Explain that ironic part please?

Poor word choice, should've said "funny" or "humorous" due to drawing a parallel, which seems to be happening quite often to me.

I'll fix it now.

 Hedkrakka wrote:
Using your models, I may also suggest that you use the Deffkoptas in three units of one Kopta each, and don't be afraid to get into combat with them as quickly as possible (i.e. flat out on T1 and charge in T2 if you're still alive). Yeah, your Koptas may get overwhelmed, but if they're fighting you, they're not shooting you, so your Boyz, Nobz and Warboss get that much closer to finishing the job. Slugga Boyz do have a hard time getting close to Tau, and IIRC, AoBR has a mere 20 Boyz which is nowhere near enough for any Ork army.

Considering the situation, I would probably advise you to expand your army sooner rather than later. Decide on a playstyle, then go for either Speed Freeks or Green Tide (or Dakka Dakka, but that's unlikely to beat Tau on an average day), either of which should be better than the AoBR lineup which lacks focus and looks as if it was designed to make SM win every time in AoBR battles and increase interest in that army.

Multiple Deffkopta units as a distraction is pretty sound in my humble opinion. If he is shooting at koptaz, he aint shootin at boyz. You will wreck him in close combat.

 loota boy wrote:
So, if you're such a die hard fanboy for tau, what's with the ork avatar?

The deffrollaz is the clubs name and symbol. And no one said that Orks are for feth. Tau are just better people. That's all.

Stealthsuit spam has a lot of S5 shots that get 2+ cover but they aren't that great. I don't recommend them at all since they are extremely expensive. To run BS3 suits with maxed out drones will cost almost 300 points.

So if she was planning on spamming them, even at just 180 points per 6 man squad, you're going to be spending 540 points. This causes pain from both taking up a huge amount of points, but also from limiting the number of Crisis suits you can take in the elite slot. Bumping them to HQ adds a significant point increase. My suggestion would be to just use the numbers against them. Run mobs to soak up all the fire and try to put so many wounds onto the suits that they are bount to fail enough saves to run.

On T3 bodies, it's not hard to get the wounds through. Add to that that they have LD8 base and will jump back 3D6" and the odds should turn in your favor very quickly.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Stealthsuit spam has a lot of S5 shots that get 2+ cover but they aren't that great. I don't recommend them at all since they are extremely expensive. To run BS3 suits with maxed out drones will cost almost 300 points.

So if she was planning on spamming them, even at just 180 points per 6 man squad, you're going to be spending 540 points. This causes pain from both taking up a huge amount of points, but also from limiting the number of Crisis suits you can take in the elite slot. Bumping them to HQ adds a significant point increase. My suggestion would be to just use the numbers against them. Run mobs to soak up all the fire and try to put so many wounds onto the suits that they are bount to fail enough saves to run.

On T3 bodies, it's not hard to get the wounds through. Add to that that they have LD8 base and will jump back 3D6" and the odds should turn in your favor very quickly.

I am quite surprised to hear people say this about stealthcouds (and by surprised i mean not surprised at all). T3 isn't the issue. 3+ or 2+ cover is. The cost...of any unit...is not relevant anyways as long as it lets the army do well what itr needs to do well.. People pay 250 points for a landRaider and you call 300 for a stealthcloud expensive?

For anyone who cares, intfiltrating stealthclouds are brutal. They can eat at a flank of orks without ceasing, cover or no cover. they aren't BS 3. they are BS 3 + markerlights. which means pretty much never BS 3. 27 shots and a melta at BS 5 is likely. Which means just one such cloud can eat nearly an entire 20 man ork squad in one go, leaving no enemy close enough to charge them reliably. since orks is what we are talking about here, help me out with the math: If I have three such squads, all lined up on ork horde targets in round 1, how many dead orks is that in round 1?

Of course the KFF is going to HELP but that's what markerlights are for. Unfortunately those same stealthclouds come with the ability to jump back. Trukks will melt under that fire and leave orks stranded in front of the other 1100 points of the tau force wondering if they should rush the 1100 point gunline OR...the 906 point gunline on their flank. Does any of that sound like a picnic?

And if the Tau are wise and keep the nearest Stealthcloud to the enemyarmed with a Failsafe Detonator command Shas'El, then the frustration for the ork player is just bginning, for EVEN if the orks survive to charge them (Drones are Twin linked BTW) it will end in a most unpleasant way.

Now...We are talking about Orks and i will tell you that there IS no better unit to use against the majority of ork armies than the Stealthcloud. Nothing that will be as reliable, durable and did I mention reliable?

As theTau general, knowing that this is what you plan to do, the rest of the army is pretty easy to design. three pathfinder units just to make sure. There will be fire warriors for objectives who will steal pathfinder transports and the rest will likely be broadsides for the mean nastty BATTLE CANNON the orks are likely to have. or just a smattering of missile suits to open uop the trukks or at least start that process.

So against orks, I would be very comfortable paying 302 points for that unit. Why wouldn't you spend 906? It's the biggest hammer you have. It's the "terminator unit" of the Tau empire, more or less and its UNDER USED because people on the interwebz have it in their head that this is a BS 3 unit or that its Toughness is a big deal. It really really isn't when you're getting 3+ from nearly every attack that hits you, you can scatter to minimize blasts/templates afte every shot and you don't ever have to be especially close to all these phantoms that people always cite as "about to charge the Tau".

I would be the LAST person in the Imperium to say there is no answer to them. I've never met a list that couldn't be beat. Not yet. Not even Mr. Tony Kopach himself has that. But as a Tau officienado I know what i am reaching for on MY shelbves if I face orks and it rhymes with Stealthsuits.

This guy talks sense, dear good, he talks sense


Ill also go on record fellas, the KFF.....is gak now in 6th. Its not worth the points unless your spamming the ever living hell out of boyz. Which I do not do anymore. Thanks to so many rules changes (WHICH Im going to say, I friggin LOVE) its simply too hard and too long getting into combat with footsloggers. 6th edition is the edition for either speed freaks or BadMoonz. Goffs are out, even Ghaz sucks ass now. And no, you wont argue me back on that one. If your still taking Ghaz, your opinions are going down a rung on the "KC ladder of Ork awesomeness" chart.


Thank you Jancoran, for realizing that Stealthsuits are a fething monster in 6th. Cmon lads, its a friggin 2+ cover save......its a bunch of highly agile, frigging terminators that can JSJ for Morks sake

But with lower leadership, less weapon options, no options for CC, T3, and BS3 base. Yeah. They're just like terminators.

Against footslogging Orks the Stealthsuits could actually be useful. But any other list the crisis suits will always beat out on survivability and versatility. And yes Stealthsuits are BS3. You can't use the argument that if you bring another unit in and buff them, then they are now BS4 since it could be applied to any other unit on the board. And I'd suggest tetras instead of pathfinders, it would fit the stealth theme better.

And while I still think that Stealthsuits are garbage, I said that the Stealthsuits spam would hurt because you're removing the ability to take cheap twin-linked Missilepods. You're army is now kitted out mainly for anti-horde with a large chunk of points dedicated to elites and FA if you're bringing pathfinders (mostly the Devilfish admittedly), it gives you less room for broadsides. I'm not saying it won't work, not by any means. In the same sense that I would never tell somebody that a tightly held bed sheet wouldn't work as an emergency parachute. But then I just want to see someone try it and fail.

Ok, so you can wound them easier......................2+ COVER SAVE. Thats the terminator part. Also, terminators cant jump shoot jump.....or have STR5 burst cannons.....or have fusion guns.......or the range.....or the speed...... Still, 2+ cover saves with all that? Id take that in spades over terminators.

Termies don't JSJ because they don't need to stay in cover for their save. They also have higher leadership and leadership buffs. Enjoy taking stealthsuits, failing a couple saves eventually, and then running 3d6" away for every turn afterwards.

Burstcannons with BS3. Whoopie. Oh, and one melta gun. Which terminators apparently don't get access to far better weapon options. Burst cannons have 18" range, 24" if you factor in the 6" move. Terminators don't have any 24" range weapons? Seriously? S5 Assualt 3 weapons are decent enough, I'll grant you that. But termies have a much better loadout and a built in invul save.

Here's a break down.
Stealth suit advantages:
2+ cover is arguably better than a 2+ armor save.
Jet pack rules
infiltrate
Fusion blaster?

Here are the terminator advantages
Better weapon options
CC options
Can survive longer in CC
T4
BS4
built in invul save
Higher leadership
Leadership buffs
Don't fall back 3d6"
longer range options
can have transports
flamers don't affect them as badly
Heavy flamers don't wreck them

I'd just lock the suits in CC with my various groups of Koptas hovering around the table, They are cheap, durable, probably going to win in CC without help, and no longer needed as SS spam is your solution to my horde, and not big templates. There is no way your going to be out of assault range of every Kopta group on the table after infiltrating and blasting a squad of boys.

Bring more dakka